in the U.S. there is significantly MORE outrage if the victim is a child or elderly than if it is a woman.

I agree with child. I don't agree with elderly. I have no stats to back that up, however.

Another wiggly factor is that the child (and some of the elderly) abuse is to be reported by people other than the victim. I'm sure that messes the stats up royally, making it much harder to compare.

Except if the vistim is a pretty blonde woman--then the outrage is ALL OVER the crime.

"Oh, yeah, I was also stunt dick on the Wire..." We'll call that 'modeling experience", dear. He's got nothing to be embarrassed about, though. Yeah, Robin, The Holloway Effect. Argh.

Women are second-class citizens in much of the world, but that doesn't mean your distrust and anger towards the men you actually see every day is a healthy response. Taking an individual man and pre-judging him as a member of a group which has some horrific members is no different than seeing the high incidence of black people who are involved in the drug trade and suspecting every black person you see is a criminal.

Yes, Robin. Which is why I want to talk through it and not let it solidify into blind hate. Being so angry at sexism that my response becomes sexism doesn't make any sort of logical sense.

And pretending that the numbers don't skew terrifically one direction, or that that doesn't or shouldn't tell us something about the roots of the problem - well, I just have a hard time with that.

This. Exactly.

And now I am ChiKat.

Which means I have very pretty hair. And, I am a fantastic writer. Yay!

Women are second-class citizens in much of the world, but that doesn't mean your distrust and anger towards the men you actually see every day is a healthy response.

Not Allyson, but I think her whole post was that she realizes it's not a healthy response, but it is her response, nonetheless.

Oh, I know, ChiKat. That's why she's cool and I admire her. Allyson is all thoughtful and insightful like that.

We'll call that 'modeling experience", dear. He's got nothing to be embarrassed about, though.

Okay, point. But it was still a very Oz moment in a show that isn't generally that Oz-y.

And pretending that the numbers don't skew terrifically one direction, or that that doesn't or shouldn't tell us something about the roots of the problem - well, I just have a hard time with that.

I do agree with this, but it still doesn't mean that I see it as problem of men against women. The men who are the attackers are as much a product of the society I help create as the woman who is the victim is, is the point I'm trying to make, I think.

Yeah, not like I was looking for it. The duck was funny...the dick? Not nearly as much.Except that the bartender was like "yeah, yeah...put that thing away."

ETA: I think it reveals his contempt for women, but I don't think he was planning murder.

I think he was high off the rape and bragging. He was trying to top himself because it was just. so. fucking. cool.

Well, yes. Would you feel it was a gender issue if you read about a man being raped by his husband, or a friend? Or a girl being raped by her girlfriend, or a female friend? Or an elderly person being raped by a person in a position of power?

Well, in the infentisimal percentage of rapes that that is the case probably no. But the vast VAST majority of the time men rape women. Women CAN rape men (they can certainly gang-rape men), but they generally don't. Men CAN rape men but they generally don't. Women CAN rape women but again, hardly ever. I'm not saying it isn't horrible when it happens (because it certainly is) but it is such a teensy percentage of rapes that it isn't even really the same topic. Why would it have the same motivations?

If there were some sort of parity in rapist/rapee genders that would be a very important point but clearly in addition to why those rapes happen (reasons that are probably the source of SOME percentage of male on female rape as well) there is some ADDITONAL reason men rape women.

Women are second-class citizens in much of the world, but that doesn't mean your distrust and anger towards the men you actually see every day is a healthy response

I don't think Allyson is claiming the response as healthy but more along the lines of "scary as hell".