I don't like to judge too harshly societies of which I have no experience. Women may be second class citizens in those socities to us, and their situations may be untenable to us, but that is their culture, and they have the very same human right to live their culture as I do mine, whether I agree with it or not. I can't impose my own ideals onto their culture, no matter how much I might think it's 'better'.

Again, curse of education in anthropology.

I agree with Brenda. The fact is, most rapists are men. That's not saying most men are rapists. Yes, women molest, and it's aberrant, too, but not as often, and it's not fair to pretend otherwise.

You know, these guys really hit the asshole jackpot, when you think about it. They're a gang of white, possibly-rich men, on a sports team no less, using their status markers to make an individual (black, poor, female) feel small. The only way I can think of for them to accrue more asshole points would be if their victim had been a minor, or if they'd used nuclear weapons.

In my mind, rape is a gender issue, despite the conviction that rape is a power-crime rather than a sex-crime most of the time. There's just too much history there, too many systems of symbolism and signification that rely on the female=lesser=victim concept. It's too much a part of culture to pretend it's not in play.

you've seen my friend Johnny's er...

My god. Of all the things to be famous for. How does somebody write that casting sheet??

in the U.S. there is significantly MORE outrage if the victim is a child or elderly than if it is a woman.

I agree with child. I don't agree with elderly. I have no stats to back that up, however.

Another wiggly factor is that the child (and some of the elderly) abuse is to be reported by people other than the victim. I'm sure that messes the stats up royally, making it much harder to compare.

Except if the vistim is a pretty blonde woman--then the outrage is ALL OVER the crime.

"Oh, yeah, I was also stunt dick on the Wire..." We'll call that 'modeling experience", dear. He's got nothing to be embarrassed about, though. Yeah, Robin, The Holloway Effect. Argh.

Women are second-class citizens in much of the world, but that doesn't mean your distrust and anger towards the men you actually see every day is a healthy response. Taking an individual man and pre-judging him as a member of a group which has some horrific members is no different than seeing the high incidence of black people who are involved in the drug trade and suspecting every black person you see is a criminal.

Yes, Robin. Which is why I want to talk through it and not let it solidify into blind hate. Being so angry at sexism that my response becomes sexism doesn't make any sort of logical sense.

And pretending that the numbers don't skew terrifically one direction, or that that doesn't or shouldn't tell us something about the roots of the problem - well, I just have a hard time with that.

This. Exactly.

And now I am ChiKat.

Which means I have very pretty hair. And, I am a fantastic writer. Yay!

Women are second-class citizens in much of the world, but that doesn't mean your distrust and anger towards the men you actually see every day is a healthy response.

Not Allyson, but I think her whole post was that she realizes it's not a healthy response, but it is her response, nonetheless.

Oh, I know, ChiKat. That's why she's cool and I admire her. Allyson is all thoughtful and insightful like that.

We'll call that 'modeling experience", dear. He's got nothing to be embarrassed about, though.

Okay, point. But it was still a very Oz moment in a show that isn't generally that Oz-y.