Is it ever okay to say "I believe this is immoral enough that I'm going to say something about it"?

I think so, as long as you don't go around trying to actually stop people from doing it. We're all allowed to say whatever the fuck we want, you know? I honestly don't care what people write, what people think about what I write, or what might be going on in the corners of fandom that I don't know about.

On the other hand, reporting people to ISPs, or to their workplaces? Shoving slashy photomanips into actors' faces? Harassing people in e-mail or Livejournal? That's where it stops being "I think this is immoral" and turns into "You can only write what I approve of."

IS there One True Do Not Cross Line when it comes to fiction?

Pedophilia treated as romance. I'm talking pre-pubescent kids, not 16-17 year-olds.

The RPS thing is variable to me depending on the real people in question, so for me, the ME actorfic is more like a personal line, not THE line.

I've long since given up trying to figure out the appeal. People I respect write it, and I don't know why, and it doesn't reach me in the same way as fic.

And this is why Dana and I are the same person.

There's a real James Marsters, and it's nasty to put your fantasies about his boybits on to paper or phosphor and share them.

I'm perfectly happy not knowing which one JC is except by process of elimination, and letting the popslash/lotrips/rps people play with their toys

I completely agree with both of these statements, oddly.

Which is to say -- I, personally, can't read RPS, because it disturbs me to look at it and know that these are fantasies about flesh-and-blood people. The side of fandom that fetishizes actors (rather than characters) or singers (rather than their music) strikes me as very much missing the point. I even get kind of embarrassed for myself when I pick up Us magazine or whatever -- because logically, I know that thinking Catherine Zeta-Jones is hot doesn't make it intrinsically interesting to see pictures of her trying on shoes or walking her son to school. It kind of disturbs me that I know more about why Uma Thurman and Ethan Hawke separated than I do about some of my best friends' breakups. I mean, why did we decide that if someone's an entertainer, their *whole life* is entertainment? It doesn't really make much sense.

But that said, I've seen enough RPS to be aware that there *are* good writers working in those genres, and I respect the argument that they're writng about personas, not people. It doesn't make me want to read it, but I see that pretty boys bonding and putting on makeup can make for fun stories.

however, things like this:

Someone mentioned that Sean Bean is often written in lotrips as abusive, and the bottom of my stomach fell out.

turn my stomach, too. If you want to play with toys that look and sound like real people, I think you do have the responsibility to play nicely.

And this is why Dana and I are the same person.

Are you anxiously waiting for your yuletide assignment too? This may be even worse than Christmas.

On the other hand, reporting people to ISPs, or to their workplaces? Shoving slashy photomanips into actors' faces? Harassing people in e-mail or Livejournal? That's where it stops being "I think this is immoral" and turns into "You can only write what I approve of."

True, that. If you really don't like something, then it's probably best to stay away. Create or join a mailing list that doesn't accept a certain kind of fic, if that makes you feel better.

Pedophilia treated as romance. I'm talking pre-pubescent kids, not 16-17 year-olds.

I would call that a Do Not Cross line, for any number of reasons.

I would call that a Do Not Cross line, for any number of reasons

Among which is that it treads awfully close to (or crosses over into) child pornography, which is a violation of federal law. Bad ficcer, no biscuit, possibly no website, possibly a visit from the boys in blue. Sure, I haven't heard of it happening (yet), but the way things are going I expect it will...

Vonnie, Dana, and Shrift all speak for me on the RPS issue. Bothers me, but people I know and respect read and write it, and I'm not going to tell them they can't. OTOH I'm not gonna read it, either. ::shrugs::

Later--

Yes, I acknowledge that it's a personal boundary. For me, though, it's a moral boundary rather than a squick boundary; I believe that it's wrong to do this. (I also acknowledge that other people think it isn't wrong, and that there are different moral systems.)

Well, it's his characters, which he conceived and bore into existence; we're stealing the controls out of his hands and marionetting his characters into doing things he quite possibly would be horrified to see, just

Oddly enough, Joss Whedon is the one creator who has said he's on board with the idea of fanfic. In fact, he said that from the get-go he wanted Buffy to be the sort of show that fanfic was written about.

He's still squicked by various instances of fanfic; I think I remember hearing him objecting to RPS about his actresses, in fact. But I don't feel one bit guilty about messing with his characters, because he actually asked for it.

Are you anxiously waiting for your yuletide assignment too?

Yes. Except I suspect you-me didn't sign up for all the same things as me-you.

Oddly enough, Joss Whedon is the one creator who has said he's on board with the idea of fanfic. In fact, he said that from the get-go he wanted Buffy to be the sort of show that fanfic was written about.

It's funny, but some of the most wildly creative people I know of (including Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett--who is rumored to have circulated Discword "fan"fic at one time or another) are actually pretty cool about fanfic. Oddly enough, it's the writers who seem most self-indulgent and/or have become parodies of themselves (Laurell Hamilton, Anne Rice, Anne McCaffrey) are the ones who raise a stink about fanfic.