I've long since given up trying to figure out the appeal. People I respect write it, and I don't know why, and it doesn't reach me in the same way as fic.

And this is why Dana and I are the same person.

There's a real James Marsters, and it's nasty to put your fantasies about his boybits on to paper or phosphor and share them.

I'm perfectly happy not knowing which one JC is except by process of elimination, and letting the popslash/lotrips/rps people play with their toys

I completely agree with both of these statements, oddly.

Which is to say -- I, personally, can't read RPS, because it disturbs me to look at it and know that these are fantasies about flesh-and-blood people. The side of fandom that fetishizes actors (rather than characters) or singers (rather than their music) strikes me as very much missing the point. I even get kind of embarrassed for myself when I pick up Us magazine or whatever -- because logically, I know that thinking Catherine Zeta-Jones is hot doesn't make it intrinsically interesting to see pictures of her trying on shoes or walking her son to school. It kind of disturbs me that I know more about why Uma Thurman and Ethan Hawke separated than I do about some of my best friends' breakups. I mean, why did we decide that if someone's an entertainer, their *whole life* is entertainment? It doesn't really make much sense.

But that said, I've seen enough RPS to be aware that there *are* good writers working in those genres, and I respect the argument that they're writng about personas, not people. It doesn't make me want to read it, but I see that pretty boys bonding and putting on makeup can make for fun stories.

however, things like this:

Someone mentioned that Sean Bean is often written in lotrips as abusive, and the bottom of my stomach fell out.

turn my stomach, too. If you want to play with toys that look and sound like real people, I think you do have the responsibility to play nicely.

And this is why Dana and I are the same person.

Are you anxiously waiting for your yuletide assignment too? This may be even worse than Christmas.

On the other hand, reporting people to ISPs, or to their workplaces? Shoving slashy photomanips into actors' faces? Harassing people in e-mail or Livejournal? That's where it stops being "I think this is immoral" and turns into "You can only write what I approve of."

True, that. If you really don't like something, then it's probably best to stay away. Create or join a mailing list that doesn't accept a certain kind of fic, if that makes you feel better.

Pedophilia treated as romance. I'm talking pre-pubescent kids, not 16-17 year-olds.

I would call that a Do Not Cross line, for any number of reasons.

I would call that a Do Not Cross line, for any number of reasons

Among which is that it treads awfully close to (or crosses over into) child pornography, which is a violation of federal law. Bad ficcer, no biscuit, possibly no website, possibly a visit from the boys in blue. Sure, I haven't heard of it happening (yet), but the way things are going I expect it will...

Vonnie, Dana, and Shrift all speak for me on the RPS issue. Bothers me, but people I know and respect read and write it, and I'm not going to tell them they can't. OTOH I'm not gonna read it, either. ::shrugs::

Later--

Yes, I acknowledge that it's a personal boundary. For me, though, it's a moral boundary rather than a squick boundary; I believe that it's wrong to do this. (I also acknowledge that other people think it isn't wrong, and that there are different moral systems.)

Well, it's his characters, which he conceived and bore into existence; we're stealing the controls out of his hands and marionetting his characters into doing things he quite possibly would be horrified to see, just

Oddly enough, Joss Whedon is the one creator who has said he's on board with the idea of fanfic. In fact, he said that from the get-go he wanted Buffy to be the sort of show that fanfic was written about.

He's still squicked by various instances of fanfic; I think I remember hearing him objecting to RPS about his actresses, in fact. But I don't feel one bit guilty about messing with his characters, because he actually asked for it.

Are you anxiously waiting for your yuletide assignment too?

Yes. Except I suspect you-me didn't sign up for all the same things as me-you.

Oddly enough, Joss Whedon is the one creator who has said he's on board with the idea of fanfic. In fact, he said that from the get-go he wanted Buffy to be the sort of show that fanfic was written about.

It's funny, but some of the most wildly creative people I know of (including Neil Gaiman and Terry Pratchett--who is rumored to have circulated Discword "fan"fic at one time or another) are actually pretty cool about fanfic. Oddly enough, it's the writers who seem most self-indulgent and/or have become parodies of themselves (Laurell Hamilton, Anne Rice, Anne McCaffrey) are the ones who raise a stink about fanfic.

Yes, I acknowledge that it's a personal boundary. For me, though, it's a moral boundary rather than a squick boundary; I believe that it's wrong to do this. (I also acknowledge that other people think it isn't wrong, and that there are different moral systems.)

Betsy speaks for me here. (And it really, deeply sickens me to think of anyone writing Sean Bean, or any other actor who by all accounts is a perfectly decent human being who happens to have a flair for playing villains, as abusive.)

But while it's a line for me, it is a somewhat fuzzy line. For example, one summer one of the skating groups amused themselves with an ongoing story involving various real skaters (led by Obi-Kwan Michelle) going through fantastical adventures to defeat an invented villain who was wreaking havoc in the skating world. I thought it was hilarious, but it was obviously over-the-top and there was nothing sexual and nothing dealing with the various rumors that flit around the skating world about who's gay and who's straight, who's a bitch, who has anorexia, etc.

And, I don't have any trouble with historical figures turning up in historical fiction, though I do think authors have a certain responsibility to be, if not necessarily respectful, honest and thoughtful when they do such a thing.

Getting away from the RPS thing... did anyone else buy the Vividcon DVDs? I got mine a couple of days ago, and I'm just utterly enthralled. The Buffyverse vids, I've mostly seen before from online sources, but watching them on your TV screen hooked up to a decent stereo, compared to watching them on a wee window on your computer are two different things.

I have never seriously wanted to write fanfic (I've tried my hands at it casually maybe once, that's it.) but these vids are really making me wish I had the skill and time and patience to learn how to vid.