Sometimes I miss having powers... Oh. Oh! I know what this is! This is peer pressure! Any second now you're gonna make me smoke tobacco and--and have drugs!

Anya ,'Showtime'


Natter 42, the Universe, and Everything  

Off-topic discussion. Wanna talk about corsets, flaming otters, or physics? This is the place. Detailed discussion of any current-season TV must be whitefonted.


Wolfram - Feb 08, 2006 7:23:12 am PST #5679 of 10002
Visilurking

I mean, it's scarcely possible that anyone who ever took a human anatomy class really believes that we were designed by an intelligent creator.

That's odd. I personally know more than a dozen physicians who, in fact, believe just that. I'd be careful tossing the generalities around.


brenda m - Feb 08, 2006 7:24:24 am PST #5680 of 10002
If you're going through hell/keep on going/don't slow down/keep your fear from showing/you might be gone/'fore the devil even knows you're there

One has to distinguish legitimacy from truth, right? I don't think one should assume that ID has no independent validity but rather argue the point.

Generally, yes, but in this case, it's not the truth of the "theory" that's suspect (not for the point I'm making) but it the legitimacy of the the theory as an independent belief - does ID have any purpose, any *existence*, outside of the creationist agenda? I don't think it does - others have made this point so I won't belabor it - and it's history suggests that that's the case.


JZ - Feb 08, 2006 7:24:43 am PST #5681 of 10002
See? I gave everybody here an opportunity to tell me what a bad person I am and nobody did, because I fuckin' rule.

No previous experience in audits, but hey! he was an ethics lawyer for the White House General Counsel during this admin!

Which is awful and cronytastic and forehead-smacky in lots of ways, but not plain fucking stupid in the same way as putting a bald-faced lie on your resumé about graduating from a place you didn't graduate from. It was an ER plot twist from, like, fifty years ago or something!

I'm all sad about the total and utter tainting of the term "Intelligent Design;" when I first heard it several long years ago, it sounded like a perfectly decent descriptor of people who both believe in God and are down with the Big Bang and evolution and all that smart thinky-people stuff, and now it's just another weapon of craxy. It'd be nice to have a new, non-loaded term, but I'm askeered the ID folks would just glom onto that one instead and ruin it too. Apparently the wisest rule for people who are theo-evolutiono-thinkist is the Fight Club rule.


sumi - Feb 08, 2006 7:25:44 am PST #5682 of 10002
Art Crawl!!!

Project Runway fans: An interview with Andrae Gonzalo.


brenda m - Feb 08, 2006 7:25:54 am PST #5683 of 10002
If you're going through hell/keep on going/don't slow down/keep your fear from showing/you might be gone/'fore the devil even knows you're there

In the long run, I think it will have a positive benefit on science, even if it is proven wrong.

Huh, can you explain further where you think the benefit is? (The proven wrong bit - well, Gud's made that point.)


Rick - Feb 08, 2006 7:27:36 am PST #5684 of 10002

That's odd. I personally know more than a dozen physicians who, in fact, believe just that. I'd be careful tossing the generalities around.

How do they explain the structure of the human back or knee? Do they consider these to be the designs of an all knowing creator?


§ ita § - Feb 08, 2006 7:30:18 am PST #5685 of 10002
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I think it's perfectly possible for ID to have roots in creationism yet have an existence outside it. I want to use the word evolution, but it makes me laugh. All it takes is one person surfing the web and liking its smell.

But that's separating the idea from the movement. Which I do.


Gudanov - Feb 08, 2006 7:30:24 am PST #5686 of 10002
Coding and Sleeping

I'm all sad about the total and utter tainting of the term "Intelligent Design;" when I first heard it several long years ago, it sounded like a perfectly decent descriptor of people who both believe in God and are down with the Big Bang and evolution and all that smart thinky-people stuff, and now it's just another weapon of craxy.

Yeah, it's too bad, because there's nothing unreasonable about believing that God is working within the framework of natural laws to shape the Universe to some plan. Not something I believe, but that doesn't make it crazy.


Tom Scola - Feb 08, 2006 7:32:03 am PST #5687 of 10002
Remember that the frontier of the Rebellion is everywhere. And even the smallest act of insurrection pushes our lines forward.

Huh, can you explain further where you think the benefit is?

One of the primary claims of ID is that the eye is too complex to have evolved that way. If you take away one of its parts, then the whole system failed.

That encouraged scientists to go and develop a computer model of exactly how the eye evolved, (which it seems to have done about 40 times independently around the animal kingdom). By proving ID wrong, it has increased our understanding of evolution and biology.


Jessica - Feb 08, 2006 7:35:11 am PST #5688 of 10002
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

But that's separating the idea from the movement. Which I do.

I think this is an important thing to do, because "Intelligent Design" is such a well-designed marketing term that it does describe the beliefs of many sensible people outside of the core promoters.

(I try to capitalize it when talking about the political movement, and use other terms when I'm not. Before ID became common parlance, there were plenty of people in the "however it is, that's how God made it" camp who didn't have an umbrella term to use. It's unfortunate that the tidiest and most accurate-sounding phrase available was designed by a bunch of crazy people.)