Yes, Windsparrow. You have CJ down to a t.

He is a good kid at heart. Which is what makes the rest of this so frustrating.

My internal response to Teppy's pain nose is this: hee hee.

You mock my pain. Now I weep.

Hold me closer, tiny fencer....

My exact thought!

Gris, you are indeed a most excellent boyfriend. Gershwin Girl's response pattern sounds a lot like my own when I was in my early 20s, whipsawing from 0 to overstimulated to STOP STOP STOP IT HURTS in about eleven seconds. Weirdly, one thing that helped me relax and get to orgasm-having was letting go of the need for orgasm; my body was so sexually ferwonky and I was so over-thinky that I constantly got in my own way.

I was really, really lucky to have a much more experienced, very patient lover who was willing to both talk and play, and who helped me guide myself away from the thinkiness and anxiety. The thing that finally got me there was training myself to not think about coming at all: it might never happen, I might never be able to, and worrying about it was doing nothing but spoiling the pleasures I was feeling right that moment. Even if I never came once in my whole life, I knew that I did enjoy cuddling and petting and oral sex; the more I disengaged my mind from the great big thing they weren't, the more I was able to be present and attentive to the small enjoyable things they were.

For me, it was all about shutting all the what-next? voices up, shutting down the competitive plotty/planny analysis-driven wordy brain. Which was terrifying for me, as someone who'd lived almost entirely inside her brain up to then and didn't value much about herself besides that brain. The un-wordy lizard brain pleasures (especially the ferocity of the brink-of-overstimulation sensation) can be totally unnerving; it really is a little death, and if you've never been there it's hard to believe you can come back from it. Or it was for me, anyhow. The whole process was a huge leap into darkness for me.

It sounds like you're both on the right track and lucky to have each other.

Gris:

I am with the people that say take away the goal - What I have found is that my body changes day to day on what feels good and what doesn't. And Everything is a factor. My body seems much more stable in my 40's But it doesn't matter, sex is pleasurable with or without an orgasm. Here is something to try when things seem close - move away to a more indirect method of stimulation - whole hand over the area, for example- and after a bit go back. If nothing else, doing this will help her learn what the signs are for her when too much is too much. or more is better. and - I don't know if I need to say this - but make sure some of the times you see her are low physical contact. Give her some room or space. But then again, that may have been my issue.

I thinking , myabe what cj needs is more activity. maybe running to get in shape for baseball season . He has to fill his time someway without his stuff. CJ seemed pretty normal to me, actually clamer than lots of kids I see in the library on a daily basis. and I think most of them would be good kids if they just ran around the library three times before they came in to sit for a bunch more hours at the library. Is he interested in doing better at baseball? Also, it might be time for him to choose his punishment This is 2 incident s in a short period of time, and he doesn't like doing it. Possibly by choseing the punishment ( and or reward if goes x with out it ) he can start seeing that he is solely responsible for his actions. You know him better.

If she is taking Paxil or any anti-depressants, those can interfere with/delay/eliminate orgasm.

What JZ said. Also, according to some things I read a few years ago a large percentage of women can't have orgasms. There was something in there about not recognizing the build-up for what it is and not working with it also.

Brusque! I've gotten brusque before. Also "intimidating."

So, I would think that "intimidating" would be a positive eval, but it probably wasn't, I'm guessing. Maybe "the employee refuses to be a sheep like all the other sheep." would be a more accurate assessment.

Gris, I'm with people on the medication angle. Also, on what beth said, about making some times that you're together low on contact.

Also, and this might be difficult for you, but maybe if she's typically into it for 15 minutes, quit at ten--or while she's still into it. Depending on her sensitivity to the subject and sense of humor, you might even joke: No more snogging for you. Always leave 'em wanting more--you know?

Do you think she's having any guilt? Does she feel like she's going against her principles or religious restrictions in some ways? That might be contributing, too. And there mightn't be a way around that, other than that big M way you're likely not ready for, yet.

I think a lot of young women cause themselves stress by being so goal-oriented about orgasms.

(I'm giving up on whitefonting any of this. It's Bitches, after all, and I'm lazy.)

I agree, and, honestly, the not orgasming doesn't bother me at all. I went through an entire 7-month, fully sexually satisfying relationship with another young lady who had orgasm issues (in her case, I believe she'll have lots and lots of them later in life, she was just 20). The concern in this case is much more that she is frustrated, regularly, because she doesn't enjoy sexual activity nearly as much as she wants or believes she could. Not because she wants an orgasm - like shrimp and bacon, girl don't know what she's missing - but because of the difficulty she has in really enjoying it to any extent.

I do think talking to her, trying to remove any internal pressure she might have for orgasm, is a really good idea. I'll work on that.

Gris, I'm with people on the medication angle. Also, on what beth said, about making some times that you're together low on contact.

Well, this particular issue has apparently been a constant with her with and without most of the medications she uses, though her sexual experience isn't really great enough for her (or me) to be sure there's no effect. I will encourage her to bring it up with her doctor. Also, as to the low on contact thing - honestly, my own sex drive is not the hugest in the world, so at least 50% of the times we hang out (which is pretty much every day, because, um, we're gross) the physical contact is no more than affectionate kisses and cuddling to watch TV.

Quitting while she's still into it is an interesting idea. I'll give it a try.

As to the guilt thing: no idea. She doesn't seem to harbor any feelings of wrongness about it - I gather that fairly active sex lives are pretty much the norm with modern orthodox girls these days, just based on her friends that I've met. She may have issues with me particularly, of course, but until she has a long-term, steady relationship with a nice Jewish boy for us to compare it to, I can't make any assessments in that direction.