They are selling a series.

That's somewhere around the sticking point for me; they're selling a potential series, they're not writing an actual one. If they are asked to write an actual series, that is when the work of writing one should begin. Of course it's preferable to have significant portions of the world being built when the pilot is being written; it is, however, unfair to be demanding the writer spend months of his or her time on it when, at any moment, the whole thing could go up in a plume of smoke (And have it mean as much as a plume of smoke to the audience if it does)

I'd certainly want more than "we'll figure something out as we go along" in terms of assurances about future storylines before commiting $40+ million dollars to a year's worth of television.

I don't think the writers should "figure something out as we go along". They should figure it out when they have a team of writers, a salary and a guarantee that all their work won't be for naught. Right around the time when they get picked up. 'Cause to put in an enormous amount of work into a project that doesn't get picked up leads to frustration, ulcers and depending on what part of the world you're living in, a up-close tour of the poverty line.

All they need is Skip the Asspull demon. Continuity ain't no...

Forget it. I can't.

It is too early when the beginning of the story may be the end of the story

Then why do some series start out with show bibles? Are they doing it wrong?

I knew, writing that sentence, that I wouldn't get away with its imprecision.

It's the writers' prerogative what goes in. Y'know, if they want to spend a lot of time imagining and including an abundance of world-building information, before the series get a thumbs-up, cool. If they decide that they want to imagine and include an abundance of world-building information, after being giving the go-ahead, cool. It's their time, they can incorpoarte the pilot script into a ballroom dancing routine if they want.

They shouldn't have practicality on their part mistaken for laziness, though.

I've been watching the season 1 extras (Netflixed disc 7). Considering that the very pilot was made up as they went along, to the point of changing characters and creating new ones as they cast actors for a show that didn't have a pilot script yet....I'm not holding my breath for the writers having the slightest idea where they're going with this in the long term.

I love long sentences!

They shouldn't have practicality on their part mistaken for laziness, though.

How do you know it was practicality? How do you know it wasn't laziness or unconcern?

Basically, if they make a show bible early and it negatively impacts the quality of the series, no cookie. If they don't make a show bible early and it negatively impacts the quality of the series, no baked goods either.

The assertion and question "Hey, that show looks like it had no consistent direction from the beginning and it makes it less good--what are they? Lazy?" works just fine for me

'Cause to put in an enormous amount of work into a project that doesn't get picked up leads to frustration, ulcers and depending on what part of the world you're living in, a up-close tour of the poverty line.

There are some writers who will write pilot spec scripts for no pay, and an even smaller amount of those writers might actually get the chance to pitch those spec pilot scripts to a netweork, but I assure you that a) writers writing a full on pilot are already putting in lots of work which likely includes a great deal of thought about where the series will go (especially if it's a mystery-type show), and b) writers working on a pilot for JJ Abrams and Damn Lindelof are getting paid, and paid pretty decently.

I can understand where it might seem unreasonable to expect too much work from writers on a show that's only an idea, but really, the amount of work we're talking about to create a show bible, even before the show has been pitched, is in no way unreasonable to expect, and is frankly part of the job description, even that early on in the show's potential life.

I honestly don't think it makes any difference to the quality of the show whether the writers have a plan or not. I think a satisfying ending can be written just as easily when they get there as when they're writing the pilot -- maybe moreso.

I do think that for fantasy/scifi, it's a good idea to at least sketch out some basic rules for your universe before you start playing in it, and I'm not sure Lost has done that. They've been very strong on character, not so much on worldbuilding -- simply throwing more and more pieces at us doesn't count.

the amount of work we're talking about to create a show bible, even before the show has been pitched, is in no way unreasonable to expect, and is frankly part of the job description

Yeah, but this is JJA we're talking about. His tried-and-true method of dealing with being backed into a corner by continuity is to put Sydney into a tight red dress and send her to blow the corner up.

Also, what Jessica said. And on this very subject, I think it's a good thing Drew "I'm a Continuity God" Goddard will be joining the writing staff, as it just might save their asses.

I'd also like to think that the Lost team have at least a little bit of an idea what the big picture is. Not too much, hence the frequent ass-pulliness, but a little.

I have been known on occasion to be a little pie-eyed, though.

Yeah, but this is JJA we're talking about. His tried-and-true method of dealing with being backed into a corner by continuity is to put Sydney into a tight red dress and send her to blow the corner up.

Oh, I'm not saying they did it for Lost. I'm just saying that Spring's assertion that assembling a show bible that loosely sketches out the first two or three seasons before you've even pitched the show is unreasonable is, I think, unfounded.