It is too early when the beginning of the story may be the end of the story

Then why do some series start out with show bibles? Are they doing it wrong?

I knew, writing that sentence, that I wouldn't get away with its imprecision.

It's the writers' prerogative what goes in. Y'know, if they want to spend a lot of time imagining and including an abundance of world-building information, before the series get a thumbs-up, cool. If they decide that they want to imagine and include an abundance of world-building information, after being giving the go-ahead, cool. It's their time, they can incorpoarte the pilot script into a ballroom dancing routine if they want.

They shouldn't have practicality on their part mistaken for laziness, though.

I've been watching the season 1 extras (Netflixed disc 7). Considering that the very pilot was made up as they went along, to the point of changing characters and creating new ones as they cast actors for a show that didn't have a pilot script yet....I'm not holding my breath for the writers having the slightest idea where they're going with this in the long term.

I love long sentences!

They shouldn't have practicality on their part mistaken for laziness, though.

How do you know it was practicality? How do you know it wasn't laziness or unconcern?

Basically, if they make a show bible early and it negatively impacts the quality of the series, no cookie. If they don't make a show bible early and it negatively impacts the quality of the series, no baked goods either.

The assertion and question "Hey, that show looks like it had no consistent direction from the beginning and it makes it less good--what are they? Lazy?" works just fine for me

'Cause to put in an enormous amount of work into a project that doesn't get picked up leads to frustration, ulcers and depending on what part of the world you're living in, a up-close tour of the poverty line.

There are some writers who will write pilot spec scripts for no pay, and an even smaller amount of those writers might actually get the chance to pitch those spec pilot scripts to a netweork, but I assure you that a) writers writing a full on pilot are already putting in lots of work which likely includes a great deal of thought about where the series will go (especially if it's a mystery-type show), and b) writers working on a pilot for JJ Abrams and Damn Lindelof are getting paid, and paid pretty decently.

I can understand where it might seem unreasonable to expect too much work from writers on a show that's only an idea, but really, the amount of work we're talking about to create a show bible, even before the show has been pitched, is in no way unreasonable to expect, and is frankly part of the job description, even that early on in the show's potential life.

I honestly don't think it makes any difference to the quality of the show whether the writers have a plan or not. I think a satisfying ending can be written just as easily when they get there as when they're writing the pilot -- maybe moreso.

I do think that for fantasy/scifi, it's a good idea to at least sketch out some basic rules for your universe before you start playing in it, and I'm not sure Lost has done that. They've been very strong on character, not so much on worldbuilding -- simply throwing more and more pieces at us doesn't count.

the amount of work we're talking about to create a show bible, even before the show has been pitched, is in no way unreasonable to expect, and is frankly part of the job description

Yeah, but this is JJA we're talking about. His tried-and-true method of dealing with being backed into a corner by continuity is to put Sydney into a tight red dress and send her to blow the corner up.

Also, what Jessica said. And on this very subject, I think it's a good thing Drew "I'm a Continuity God" Goddard will be joining the writing staff, as it just might save their asses.

I'd also like to think that the Lost team have at least a little bit of an idea what the big picture is. Not too much, hence the frequent ass-pulliness, but a little.

I have been known on occasion to be a little pie-eyed, though.

Yeah, but this is JJA we're talking about. His tried-and-true method of dealing with being backed into a corner by continuity is to put Sydney into a tight red dress and send her to blow the corner up.

Oh, I'm not saying they did it for Lost. I'm just saying that Spring's assertion that assembling a show bible that loosely sketches out the first two or three seasons before you've even pitched the show is unreasonable is, I think, unfounded.

I'm just saying that Spring's assertion that assembling a show bible that loosely sketches out the first two or three seasons is unreasonable is, I think, unfounded.

I totally agree. I'm just saying that if they did it for this show, chances are good that the show bible is currently being used as a coaster. Hopefully in Ultimate Drew's office.

Which is fine with me -- I think X-Files cured me of any tendency to depend on the writers having a plan for my enjoyment of a show. I'd much rather watch something good written on the fly than something crappy and pre-planned.

I've sunk into speaking about pilots for series in general and everybody else is still talking about Lost and that was for silly, personal reasons. My fault.

I made the mistake of conflating two issues in my head. The first was that I have yet to see an American television series that has shown the kind of worldbuilding or structure that would be the result of an extensive precommission show bible. The second was that you would get laughed at for handing in a fifty page show bible alongside your pilot script in the Irish and British television industry. That's because they pay ain't that great and one would be foolish to do that kind of work on the money from an option. But, yeah, Hollywood contracts, money flying, if that kind of work is expected, I defer.

I saw, well, red is overstating it, maybe a light pink when it was suggested that the bulk of the series should be figured out alongside the pilot and I got all proxy with the Lost writers.