I honestly don't think it makes any difference to the quality of the show whether the writers have a plan or not. I think a satisfying ending can be written just as easily when they get there as when they're writing the pilot -- maybe moreso.

I do think that for fantasy/scifi, it's a good idea to at least sketch out some basic rules for your universe before you start playing in it, and I'm not sure Lost has done that. They've been very strong on character, not so much on worldbuilding -- simply throwing more and more pieces at us doesn't count.

the amount of work we're talking about to create a show bible, even before the show has been pitched, is in no way unreasonable to expect, and is frankly part of the job description

Yeah, but this is JJA we're talking about. His tried-and-true method of dealing with being backed into a corner by continuity is to put Sydney into a tight red dress and send her to blow the corner up.

Also, what Jessica said. And on this very subject, I think it's a good thing Drew "I'm a Continuity God" Goddard will be joining the writing staff, as it just might save their asses.

I'd also like to think that the Lost team have at least a little bit of an idea what the big picture is. Not too much, hence the frequent ass-pulliness, but a little.

I have been known on occasion to be a little pie-eyed, though.

Yeah, but this is JJA we're talking about. His tried-and-true method of dealing with being backed into a corner by continuity is to put Sydney into a tight red dress and send her to blow the corner up.

Oh, I'm not saying they did it for Lost. I'm just saying that Spring's assertion that assembling a show bible that loosely sketches out the first two or three seasons before you've even pitched the show is unreasonable is, I think, unfounded.

I'm just saying that Spring's assertion that assembling a show bible that loosely sketches out the first two or three seasons is unreasonable is, I think, unfounded.

I totally agree. I'm just saying that if they did it for this show, chances are good that the show bible is currently being used as a coaster. Hopefully in Ultimate Drew's office.

Which is fine with me -- I think X-Files cured me of any tendency to depend on the writers having a plan for my enjoyment of a show. I'd much rather watch something good written on the fly than something crappy and pre-planned.

I've sunk into speaking about pilots for series in general and everybody else is still talking about Lost and that was for silly, personal reasons. My fault.

I made the mistake of conflating two issues in my head. The first was that I have yet to see an American television series that has shown the kind of worldbuilding or structure that would be the result of an extensive precommission show bible. The second was that you would get laughed at for handing in a fifty page show bible alongside your pilot script in the Irish and British television industry. That's because they pay ain't that great and one would be foolish to do that kind of work on the money from an option. But, yeah, Hollywood contracts, money flying, if that kind of work is expected, I defer.

I saw, well, red is overstating it, maybe a light pink when it was suggested that the bulk of the series should be figured out alongside the pilot and I got all proxy with the Lost writers.

I have yet to see an American television series that has shown the kind of worldbuilding or structure that would be the result of an extensive precommission show bible

I'm guessing, at the very least, that you didn't watch Babylon 5. That was more than just a show bible, by far.

How about "I have yet to see enough American television series with the kind of worldbuilding or structure that would lead me to believe that extensive precommission show bibles are a common practice"?

The second was that you would get laughed at for handing in a fifty page show bible alongside your pilot script in the Irish and British television industry.

I don't think you would ever need to hand it in at pilot pitch, but it wouldn't necessarily hurt to have it written, even if the network suits never know it exists.

How about "I have yet to see enough American television series with the kind of worldbuilding or structure that would lead me to believe that extensive precommission show bibles are a common practice"?

That's probably a reasonable accurate take on the subject.

I don't think you would ever need to hand it in at pilot pitch, but it wouldn't necessarily hurt to have it written, even if the network suits never know it exists.

For the, God forgive me I shouldn't be saying this, series I'm developing, the pilot and bible were handed in together. And it wasn't pitched to a network exec 'cause, well, no such thing exists here.