Western as distinct from Southern European, anyway.

See, I think "culturally Christian" is an ethnicity. It is something I am rather than something I choose. So if we take the 'P' of WASP to be "part of that unique cultural environment defined by a large majority protestant population," then it's totally ethnic.

I think I'm still a WASP despite not being a Protestant, you know?

(Gris says what I was getting at without sounding snappy about it.) (This day has GOT to end one of these weeks.)

As for the Judaism comparison - from what I can tell, this is actually a fairly legitimate comparison. In the Jewish spectrum, you have first the strong religious believers (of various levels of practice, of course), then you have the equivalent of Christmas-and-Easter believers (only, of course, it's Rosh Hashanah, Passover, and, in America at least, Hannukah/Jewsmas instead) who won't say they don't believe the religion, but it's primary significance comes in the occasional cultural celebration. Next you have those who were raised with some level of religiousness, but have rejected the religion part or never believed it strongly, but might still spin a dreidel, eat some latkes, make matzah ball soup - these are the equivalent of cultural Christians who still celebrate Christmas. Finally, you have purely secular Jews who actually scorn celebrating Jewish holidays and whatnot, but nonetheless were generally raised with a Jewish perspective, of sorts. They certainly, generally, are less likely to fully celebrate Christmas than a purely secular non-Jew, and they will still be more likely to use the occasional yiddish. No matter how hard they reject the religion, their cultural backdrop is, often, still Jewish. My hardcore atheist friend who loves Christmas is the Christian-side equivalent of this, with her long-term Western/Christian background providing that bit of cultural backdrop.

It's telling that, as specific a list as this is, not one person in my (mostly) Jewish family is described here.

Generalizations are hard.

Oh, I know. To be fair, I'm not sure too many people in the Christian world are really described there either. My main point was just that, um, okay I'm not really sure what my main point was actually.

Maybe that everything is more confusing than it ought to be.

I have 2 out of my 3 holiday "things in jars" gifts decided, and am still wavering on the 3rd. Here are some of my ideas:

I vote strawberry! What are your other two items??

The One True Christmas Carol is "O Holy Night."

Yes, yes it is. I love that song. It's my favorite Christmas carol.

I love this whole holiday conversation, but have nothing to add as all my brain cells are being used for school right now. Christmas is my all-time favorite holiday and I love it with a passion. I identify and celebrate the religious aspects and revel in the secular ones, too. I love the birth of Christ story, I love the angels, I love Santa, I love Christmas trees, I love Christmas carols and radio stations that play Christmas music 24/7, I love spending time with friends and family, I love egg nog, I love being on reindeer watch with my nieces/nephews, all of it.

I vote strawberry! What are your other two items??

Caramelized red onion relish, and mango/red pepper chutney. And cranberry liqueur, but that's in bottles not jars. (Note to self: buy vodka and cranberries.)

Caramelized red onion relish, and mango/red pepper chutney

Yum. Do you have recipes for these?

Relish and chutney.

Wow, you guys are deep. Lots of fascinating discussion goings-on. I have nothing to add, except maybe Nora, does it have to be oval? Because Overstock has something similar with a heart . Or, if you could settle for the toggle-type bracelet, they have bajillions.