Hec, want me to kick her butt? It won't be as definitive as an ita asskick, but quite memorable, nonetheless.

I was conflating ethnicity and culture in my mind.

The WAS part is ethnic. It's just the P that's not.

Didn't we have a discussion a while back about the terms "ethnicity" vs. "race"? I had an argument with chatty!co-worker because he referred to fundie Christians as an ethnic group. I said they weren't; he said they were, citing the Webster definition of "ethnic": "Of or relating to a sizable group of people sharing a common and distinctive racial, national, religious, linguistic, or cultural heritage," emphasizing the "religious" part of that definition.

I still feel like he's wrong, but I can't articulate why, and it's very frustrating.

I think the P part is just as ethnic as the WAS.

(edit: x-post with Tep. Odd.)

To me, ethnicity isn't something you chose. It's what you *are*.

eta: That was in ref to Step]. Thank Ellie for the weird spacing=.

I'd call the AS ethnic, except that I think anything distinctively AS is hundreds of years lost. It's something new now that's not really expressed by those words. And really what it's getting at is more (ancestrally) European non-Latin non-Catholics. Which doesn't exactly trip off the tongue.

Do colored lights represent anything?

That people got bored by white ones. I mean, the lights themselves are descended from putting actual candles on the tree in various pagan rituals, so saying the white = purity is kind of a grasping-for-straws symbolism anyway. Doesn't change the fact that I've always associated them in my mind.

Personally, I also think white lights are much prettier, especially in limited amounts. But that's just a personal opinion.

As for the Judaism comparison - from what I can tell, this is actually a fairly legitimate comparison. In the Jewish spectrum, you have first the strong religious believers (of various levels of practice, of course), then you have the equivalent of Christmas-and-Easter believers (only, of course, it's Rosh Hashanah, Passover, and, in America at least, Hannukah/Jewsmas instead) who won't say they don't believe the religion, but it's primary significance comes in the occasional cultural celebration. Next you have those who were raised with some level of religiousness, but have rejected the religion part or never believed it strongly, but might still spin a dreidel, eat some latkes, make matzah ball soup - these are the equivalent of cultural Christians who still celebrate Christmas. Finally, you have purely secular Jews who actually scorn celebrating Jewish holidays and whatnot, but nonetheless were generally raised with a Jewish perspective, of sorts. They certainly, generally, are less likely to fully celebrate Christmas than a purely secular non-Jew, and they will still be more likely to use the occasional yiddish. No matter how hard they reject the religion, their cultural backdrop is, often, still Jewish. My hardcore atheist friend who loves Christmas is the Christian-side equivalent of this, with her long-term Western/Christian background providing that bit of cultural backdrop.

So more a Western European thing? See, WWEP doesn't really roll off the tongue.

Western as distinct from Southern European, anyway.

See, I think "culturally Christian" is an ethnicity. It is something I am rather than something I choose. So if we take the 'P' of WASP to be "part of that unique cultural environment defined by a large majority protestant population," then it's totally ethnic.

I think I'm still a WASP despite not being a Protestant, you know?

(Gris says what I was getting at without sounding snappy about it.) (This day has GOT to end one of these weeks.)