the white lights (symbolizing Christ's purity) and the star/angel on top that symbolizes those two Christmas story elements. The presents really do live in my mind as representative of the gifts of the Magi

Whoa. I may have heard those things at some point, but I've long since forgotten them. Sure, that'd complicate the secularization somewhat (do colored lights represent anything?).

A guy may be going to jail for not completing his drug rehab program. It was run by a Pentacostal group, and the requirement was that he give up Catholicism (which the Pentacostals labeled witchcraft) and become a Pentacostal. ACLU is suing and I presume they will win. [link]

Or rather, I don't understand how someone can be part of a faith culturally but not religiously.

Aren't all secular Jews an example?

The idea of the holiday is so wedded in my mind with the religious significance that I can't see myself having a purely secular celebration

Because of the years without church - it isn't for me. DH may have had more problems with it but 1) he likes giving me gifts and 2) he likes giving 3) and all the trimmings - are mine and for me, and he can chose or not chose to get invovled in most of it.

Aren't all secular Jews an example?

I admit, I don't know much about Judaism, whether Orthodox or secular. So I didn't want to create an even bigger muddle by trying to compare it to Judaism.

TB, I tend to think you're right because the judge ordered that specific rehab program.

Aren't all secular Jews an example?

But Judaism is sorta an ethnicity as well as a religion.

Good point, Trudy. I was conflating ethnicity and culture in my mind.

Aren't all secular Jews an example?

If Judaism is something that can be conferred on someone by birth only then I don't think it's the same.

I claim my ethingc background - or cultural background, more accurately, is WASP. Living in fremont,ca - where that is not a majority - might make it clear why I ID as I do.

but now, I have to go to work. stooopid protestant work ethic.