And I am a bit of a grade whore

For that I'm giving you an "A", or an "O" if you prefer that grading scale.

Informing on somebody just sits wrong with me. The offense would have to be genuinely harmful to a person or institution rather than just an offense against the abstract principles of Justice and Fair Play.

But it *is* genuinely harmful to persons and institutions if at some point it comes to light that, gee, people were getting away with cheating at institution X for YEARS. It devalues the institution's status and the status of the non-cheater's degree.

And this has what, exactly, to do with seeing cheating and thinking it's wrong enough to do something about?

I'm specifically addressing the issue of grade-curves where somebody else cheating is negatively affecting your grade. Definitely a tangent, but related to Jen's point about what you learn vs. what grade you get. What is genuinely valuable.

I feel like that was directed at me.

Sorry, ms. bug. I do know it's something we've talked about here, and I don't mean to target you directly. The whole conversation is actually more pointed at you than I intend or is fair. I really had in mind a whole lot of people who flourished in an academic environment but floundered once they got away from the immediate reinforcements of grades.

In any event, I trust you to be an ethical person who acts on her conscience.

"Cheating is wrong because it's not honest."-abstract Cheating by fucking up vw's lab report- concrete wronging. just my two cents. FTR, I've never cheated in school.

And do you see the principle of Loyalty to Peers as less abstract?

If somebody fails because I turn them in, then the damage to that person is specific and harmful. If I don't turn them in, the only thing harmed is Academic Standards. Or Truth, or Fairness or whatever principle you think is harmed.

Informing on somebody just sits wrong with me. The offense would have to be genuinely harmful to a person or institution rather than just an offense against the abstract principles of Justice and Fair Play.

Reporting cheaters isn't simply about Justice and Fair Play. There is damage done when it doesn't get reported -- it tacitly approves not doing one's own work. It's saying that it's okay to not do the work you're required to do. And those students graduate and turn into the co-workers who come in late every day, or worse -- the co-workers who embezzle, or the CEOs who fuck their employees out of their retirement funds.

Because nobody busted them for taking the easy way out.

Not reporting cheating does also damage a school's reputation, if the cheating is widespread and allowed to continue. Who would hire a graduate of Cheaters State University?

t edit Or, what Emily and Plei and others said more eloquently.

I do get the point about abstraction, though. Stealing Cable is Wrong, too, but I don't know that I'd be dropping the dime on it.

If somebody fails because I turn them in, then the damage to that person is specific and harmful.

And deserved.

Who would hire a graduate of Cheaters State University?

Political campaigns?

I can see where grades are important if one is applying to grad school, but outside the academic world they never EVER come up. Employers want to know if you have a degree (whihc means you passed your needed classes of course), but grades don't matter. What matters is what you know and what you do with that knowledge. Tying ones' sense of accomplishment to grades (and I've done it myself) is dicey because a professor who isn't clear about expectations or even one who is going through a bad month can give a bad grade which has little to do with the important thing, what you learned, and the bad grade is really all about them.