I'm forever Team Leo, but I'm impressed with Logan's actual emotional development and apparent hard work to deal with his boatloads of shit, which is in stark contrast to Veronica, who admittedly knows that she's fucked up but is really really stuck there. Like, I love that about the character of Veronica -- there aren't a lot of female protagonists who are allowed to be so incredibly flawed, and that's something we need to see more of -- but it also makes me a little sad for her. Like, if *Logan* can work on his shit, anyone can.

Hard agree, Tep. Alla that.

I agree, Tep. At least Veronica had Keith. And she even had Liane until the alcoholism progressed too far (and the subsequent abandonment).

Logan never had much of a real foundation. I think his mother loved him, but she sat in the other room and drank her drink while her husband beat him.

Logan never had much of a real foundation. I think his mother loved him, but she sat in the other room and drank her drink while her husband beat him.

Right? And then his girlfriend was killed, by his dad, no less (who had been screwing her). And in the movie, he found *that* girlfriend dead. The dude is rapidly approaching Frodo-like levels of Walking Bag of Pain.

I have finished all eight episodes and I don't even know what I want to say about anything so there's no spoiler font. Oh wait! I will just talk about cameos. So I yelled "holy fucking shit" when I saw Trae Crowder on the screen. That was a delightful bit of stunt casting. And I wish we had gotten more of Mary McDonnell as Logan's therapist, though it made for a nice late episode reveal. And of course, not a cameo because he had a big role, but JK Simmons was great as Clyde .

It's going to take a minute to process that season. Whew.

-t, do you mean Little Dick or Big Dick? Because one is jar-ready .

I meant Little Dick as Last Casablancas standing. I figure he'll survive anything

We are being pokey as hell and just finished episode 4. I have to say, while I'm impressed with Logan's emotional growth and hard work to get there, I am still 100% Team Leo. I have always loved Leo unreasonably.

Has everyone watched s4 VM now?

We just watched episode 6 tonight. We are so damn slow. (I want to be clear, here: it's August 27, so I know everything is fair game to be discussed without spoiler font. I'll take my chances in this thread from here on out.)

And I'm still 100% Team Leo. Although I'd be equally as happy with Team Nicole.

Mmm, Nicole.