I love that when I went to wikipedia to learn more about the actual Stanford Prison Experiment, this episode of VM was already referenced at the bottom. How cool is that??

I finally caught up on the episode last night. I love Keith. The flashbacks explained stuff but it was difficult to follow if you weren't as familiar (or obsessive) about the ending of last season. That's my only bitch with this episode. I liked everything else.

I like the Wallace/Logan interaction. I liked the Mac/Parker interaction. I liked this especially because it's comforting to me to see the other characters interact independent of Veronica.

Wallace was great in the experiment as was Logan Both are smart and I like the competition between them.

The only thing that is giving me the worries is the subliminal messages of possible trouble with V/L. Namely, her hesitation when Piz asked her if she had a boyfriend and her "starcrossed" comment at the food court. Maybe I'm just borrowing trouble, though, and things will be fine. Yeah, like that's going to happen.

I did feel sorry for the den mother, but hey--one cancer patient could not POSSIBLY smoke that much weed. That looked like a wholesale operation to me.

There are so many questions I still have. I need to see Weevil. I want to know if there was fallout from Aaron Ecolls' murder. I want some flashbacks or something to give me more information.

And why wasn't Lamb blown up on Woody Goodman's plane? That was one wish I was making at the end of last season.

And why wasn't Lamb blown up on Woody Goodman's plane?

Because he wasn't on it and, in fact, never left Neptune?

(I know you meant that in an "I wish" way, but there were STILL people confused about that for some reason. Of course, they were on the CW Lounge, which is populated by idiots, but you know.)

Have you found these first two episodes compelling?

honestly, yes. i know i can't speak objectively about this show because it really did fill a place that only Buffy and Angel had held previously.

Do you think, if you were just tuning in, that you'd keep tuning in?

I don't think i can answer that, really. i will say that we've had quite a few new posters in the v_m comm who were GG watchers that stuck around and are now in love with the show.

What's the Joss quote Need/want? Tale/teller? Stop watching and the pain will go away?

the latter.

Of course, they were on the CW Lounge, which is populated by idiots, but you know.

there were plenty of them in the v_m comm too. the severe need to snark was becoming overwhelming.

I don't think i can answer that, really. i will say that we've had quite a few new posters in the v_m comm who were GG watchers that stuck around and are now in love with the show.

Excellent. That's so good to hear.

I know you meant that in an "I wish" way, but there were STILL people confused about that for some reason.

I know why they were confused. When Veronica asked Keith how he wasn't dead, Keith said Lamb wouldn't let him on the plane because of the reporters. I assumed Lamb was the one that apprehended Woody and I never followed up on it online. I just made assumptions. Until I saw the asshead in Parker's dorm room. And why won't someone file a sexual harrassment lawsuit or something against that idiot????

I think they started this season wiith the intent to draw in new viewers and didn't want to overload them with backstory right away. I think these two episodes have been compelling--the short arcs and the single episode plots are good enough and the longer arcs seem like they're enough to keep people around. People who aren't me, that is.

But I'm not objective about the show, either.

Lamb's comments in the dorm room struck me as very false. It's one thing for him to question Veronica, his nemesis and the daughter of his rival, but to question students at a nearby private university? Not too likely.

I'm also with bon bon that the VM version of the Stanford Prison Experiment completely missed the point of the original, in a similar-yet-significantly-more-serious way to how their version of 12 Angry Men also missed the point. The point of the SPE was that anyone could be dehumanized and/or be a dehumanizer in a institutional setting. In VM's world, the only guard who turned into a torturer was already an ass, and the only prisoner who lost his shit was already weak (and Samm Levine, as perfect as he is in all things, has to be at least 40 now, right?). Also, in the SPE, the professor lost himself in his role, the prisoners were further dehumanized by using numbers rather than identities, and they actually had to release some people due to psychological trauma.

I mean, don't get me wrong. I like that they're trying to develop Wallace and Logan as characters independent of Veronica, and I liked certain aspects of that sequence. But I hated the way that they trivialized the SPE, especially given the vastly different treatment that Battlestar Galactica has adopted towards similar notions of humanity and oppression.

Yes, exactly. I mean, SPE had its flaws, but at least in the popular imagination it is considered a devastating statement on the ordinary human capacity for evil, not proof that bullies beat up on nerds.

Two ways they could redeem the trivializing of the experiment: one is a more explicit connection to fraternity life. (Although that is more in line with Milgram.) The other, someone on TWoP hypothesized, is that the rapist is someone who participated in the experiment in the past-- I mean, it makes no sense, but at least it would acknowledge that an experiment like that would have consequences.

Bob Bob is finishing up his dissertation on how rational people become evil, and so he's got lots of these types of experiments/examples to hand. When Samm Levine said he was going to help the guard with his homework, he looked at me with amazement and said something like, "now they're making him into the concentration camp prisoners who helped the guards?!" I thought that might be a stretch, but if they really meant to suggest that, it's pretty fucked up.

Lamb's comments in the dorm room struck me as very false. It's one thing for him to question Veronica, his nemesis and the daughter of his rival, but to question students at a nearby private university? Not too likely.

I seem to recall he was nothing but professional to Parker and was only being an ass outside of her earshot or when talking to Veronica. Which I can totally see Lamb doing. He puts on a good show for the public, which is why he keeps getting elected.

bon bon - hasn't there been some hint that the rapist might be Wallace and Piz's C.A.? Who has been involved in that experiment in the past AND is also somehow connected to that program that gives people rides home when they're out late.