Or does he not know Keith was all up in that?

Well, he was following the pen from Vinnie, so I expect he must have had some clue who was providing a ride to Cormac.

On one hand, I doubt Veronica would have told Mac, because I don't think she ever told Mac about the rape in the first place. On the other hand, there are a million ways the topic could have come up in the aftermath of Beaver's death, and if Veronica thought the knowledge would somehow help Mac, rather than hurt her, I do think she'd tell her. The thing is, I can't figure out how/why learning this part of the story would anything other than make Mac feel worse.

cereal...

I thought there was some real nice stuff with Mac and Parker in this episode. They had me waiting for the hug scenes and scenes before it happened, and it was a great touch, because knowing Mac, and only being able to imagine Parker's mindset right now, I had no reason to be positive the hug would come.

I think I feel about Mac the way a good chunk of Buffy fans felt about Willow. I mean that in a positive sense. Mac is so likable to me, and a pleasure to have on my screen, the way Wallace was the pause that refreshed, in season 1. I still love Wallace, but I feel like the writers lost touch with him a little in season 2. Fortunately, Percy is such a positive presence, that I'm still interested.

I am heartened by the fact that Wallace was both decent to the prisoners (like giving the sweat pants to Horshack) and smart enough to trick the abusive guy on his own team as well as the prisoners, and get the information out them, for the win. It was a nice touch to have Logan yell, "No!" just before the prisoners were tricked into losing. I like my Neptune kids smart.

Like I said before, when I was a reporter covering California's medical marijuana initiative, I was aware of some pretty big crops for personal use, mostly because so much of it ends up being unusable.

And no, you can't really get a prescription in most places in California. It's still a town to town political battlefield, and conservative counties like Orange County, Riverside and San Diego (those bordering the fictional Neptune) can be real sticklers, not to mention that the federal government has basically said that they don't give a damn, and that possession is still a crime. Seriously, I've seen people arrested and at least one person die trying to get access to medical marijuana after the law was passed. It's still a messy and ugly situation.

I finally watched the episode last night and read through the thread. I started watched VM last summer when they re-ran half the first season. Had it been these two episodes, I wouldn't have continued watching. So yeah, I think these episodes are underwhelming compared to prior seasons, and it just makes the nits easier to pick.

Speaking of nits, I was almost as bothered by the casual use of the stanford prison experiment as the jury in One Angry Veronica-- and had almost the same reaction.

• That's dancing on the edge of legal, if not outright illegal, and the show isn't acknowledging it
• That's not even how it works/worked!
• The consequences of both are much more grave than the show acknowledges

Usually they're really good about that stuff, which is why in both episodes I found it annoying.

I love that when I went to wikipedia to learn more about the actual Stanford Prison Experiment, this episode of VM was already referenced at the bottom. How cool is that??

I finally caught up on the episode last night. I love Keith. The flashbacks explained stuff but it was difficult to follow if you weren't as familiar (or obsessive) about the ending of last season. That's my only bitch with this episode. I liked everything else.

I like the Wallace/Logan interaction. I liked the Mac/Parker interaction. I liked this especially because it's comforting to me to see the other characters interact independent of Veronica.

Wallace was great in the experiment as was Logan Both are smart and I like the competition between them.

The only thing that is giving me the worries is the subliminal messages of possible trouble with V/L. Namely, her hesitation when Piz asked her if she had a boyfriend and her "starcrossed" comment at the food court. Maybe I'm just borrowing trouble, though, and things will be fine. Yeah, like that's going to happen.

I did feel sorry for the den mother, but hey--one cancer patient could not POSSIBLY smoke that much weed. That looked like a wholesale operation to me.

There are so many questions I still have. I need to see Weevil. I want to know if there was fallout from Aaron Ecolls' murder. I want some flashbacks or something to give me more information.

And why wasn't Lamb blown up on Woody Goodman's plane? That was one wish I was making at the end of last season.

And why wasn't Lamb blown up on Woody Goodman's plane?

Because he wasn't on it and, in fact, never left Neptune?

(I know you meant that in an "I wish" way, but there were STILL people confused about that for some reason. Of course, they were on the CW Lounge, which is populated by idiots, but you know.)

Have you found these first two episodes compelling?

honestly, yes. i know i can't speak objectively about this show because it really did fill a place that only Buffy and Angel had held previously.

Do you think, if you were just tuning in, that you'd keep tuning in?

I don't think i can answer that, really. i will say that we've had quite a few new posters in the v_m comm who were GG watchers that stuck around and are now in love with the show.

What's the Joss quote Need/want? Tale/teller? Stop watching and the pain will go away?

the latter.

Of course, they were on the CW Lounge, which is populated by idiots, but you know.

there were plenty of them in the v_m comm too. the severe need to snark was becoming overwhelming.

I don't think i can answer that, really. i will say that we've had quite a few new posters in the v_m comm who were GG watchers that stuck around and are now in love with the show.

Excellent. That's so good to hear.