Allyson there are probably ten to twenty people who posted on the OB when the ad came out that are still there today. Maybe less. I wish I could make them nicer to you because you deserve it.

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I wish I could make them nicer to you because you deserve it.

That's amazingly kind. You know what, though? My perspective is skewed by what is interesting to me. I know all about the Topic Wars and Color Wars and who did what at the Bronze, years before I got there, because I'm awfully interested in community history and how it all came to be. And still, if you went to what's left of the Bronze, and asked, "how come we can't all post in color?" a handful of people would be able to answer, or at least know where to find 'stina who was the keeper of that piece of history.

I find the history of a community to be incredibly important.

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I was talking about Angel. You were talking about Firefly. Hence my whatEv.

Your post read to me like you were saying fan campaigns were pointless. I was merely giving an example, which I knew you were very familiar with, of when they haven't been. It wasn't meant as a "zing". It just sounded like you were saying "All these craxy fans, why do they keep trying?" If I misinterpreted, I apologize.

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Mostly, however, I am sad that I did not win Mega Millions last week.

$145M and I was gonna call that Global Frequency dude and see if he wanted to give that crazy straight to DVD/air it on the internet paradigm shift a whirl.

I am also sad that you did not win Mega Millions last week.

They haven't forgotten the ad, but they forgot how it came to be. I do want to be a footnote in that collective history, it's important to me. Kristen sees us as a footnote. I see the Variety ad as a footnote, but also think I've disappeared.

Despite an active prescence in some of the Vampire-infested areas of the Jossverse, I've never been part of Firefly Fandom as such. I I didn't get to seee the show until the DvD's came out... yet even I (from a non-FF fan (at the time) perspective) knew all about Variety Ad campaign. It was such a HUGE thing in Fandom.

You should totally be a footnote.

I find the history of a community to be incredibly important.

Amen to that.

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"All these craxy fans, why do they keep trying?"

No. What I am saying is, if the showrunner isn't trying to save the show, the fans can't do much of anything besides register their disappointment.

I don't think fan campaigns work in the way fans think they do. Fans can support the efforts of a showrunner who is trying to accomplish something, like when Tim wanted the petition to help show 20th that there was enough people who loved Wonderfalls to justify releasing it on DVDs. The petition was a visual aid for the argument, I think.

Joss' call to "make some noise" about Angel's future made my head hurt. He wasn't making any particular effort to shop the show around and was moving toward film. So it seemed to encourage the fans to go into overdrive with false hope.

I was merely giving an example, which I knew you were very familiar with, of when they haven't been.

But you understand the point of our campaign was to keep the show on the air, and we failed? The point wasn't to get DVDs or a flick. The DVDs were a given if the campaign never existed, and we had absolutely zero to do with the flick.

I'm really very sensitive about taking credit for things for which I can't actually take credit.

I believe Kristen is right in that it's a lovely story, that the fans campaigned hard and got DVDs and a movie, but it's not a true story. I wish it was. Nothing would make me feel prouder.

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The point wasn't to get DVDs or a flick. The DVDs were a given if the campaign never existed, and we had absolutely zero to do with the flick.

Wait, I'm probably getting my history jumbled but wasn't the campaign to save the show underway before the official cancellation and that the DVDs were promised at the point the show was cancelled. If I've got that chronology right, do you think the DVDs would have been promised if there hadn't been a fairly vigorous (to say the least) campaign underway?

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But you understand the point of our campaign was to keep the show on the air, and we failed? The point wasn't to get DVDs or a flick. The DVDs were a given if the campaign never existed, and we had absolutely zero to do with the flick.

I find this very difficult to believe. If Firefly had just up and died with a whimper, I don't see the DVD release happening. Before Firefly, a cancelled show getting a DVD release was pretty much unheard of. Had there even been any at that point?

I can see Universal being very interested in bringing Joss into their fold, but enough to risk $50 million on remaking a failed TV show? Without any evidence that people would bother to see it?

I'm not arguing that there probably weren't a lot of different factors involved, but the fact that the show had so many dedicated and vocal fans was surely one of them.

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Wait, I'm probably getting my history jumbled but wasn't the campaign to save the show underway before the official cancellation and that the DVDs were promised at the point the show was cancelled. If I've got that chronology right, do you think the DVDs would have been promised if there hadn't been a fairly vigorous (to say the least) campaign underway?

Once again Frank, we are as one.

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do you think the DVDs would have been promised if there hadn't been a fairly vigorous (to say the least) campaign underway?

yes. there was a large enough audience to justify the release of DVDs and make them profitable, and that wasn't due to postcards, but due to the nielsens. there were a few million regular viewers. It was enough.

I find this very difficult to believe.

And yet, that's how it is.

Before Firefly, a cancelled show getting a DVD release was pretty much unheard of.

Really? I'm not so sure about that. But also not interested in digging up examples.

I can see Universal being very interested in bringing Joss into their fold, but enough to risk $50 million on remaking a failed TV show?

Crazier deals are made every day. Battleship Earth happened. Like, it actually exists. And that's WAY crazier than wooing Joss with 40 mil. They'll at the very least break even on it between US and foreign theatrical releases, so fronting the cash for it was no loss.

I do, however, think the fans have done an amazing job of pushing DVD sales and promoting Firefly/Serenity. I absolutely adore the amount of charitable work they've done. And that speaks well of both the fans and the people who made Firefly happen. They've truly been amazing, generous, loving folks. That makes me insanely happy.

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I believe Kristen is right in that it's a lovely story, that the fans campaigned hard and got DVDs and a movie, but it's not a true story. I wish it was. Nothing would make me feel prouder.

Dude, take the pat on the back. Keeping in on tv may have been the intention of the campaign and variety ad, but without that tremendous show of fan support the DVDs and subsequent movie(s) would have been highly unlikely. Sure there were other factors. But how many times just Joss have to say it never would have happened without the incredible fan support?

Really guys, it may not have been the payoff you were looking for, but you definitely earned the credit for it.

ETA: Okay seriously, someone's gonna have to tie Allyson down and shove some credit down her throat. Not It.

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