It's usually a question of whether or not it's a romantic interest, or a man who takes up the woman's whole life. Like, if the whole movie is about a woman taking care of her brother, and she talks only with her friend about that brother, that wouldn't pass the test for me.

What difference does it make to you in practice if a work passes or fails the test? If not in practice, then in theory?

What difference does it make to you in practice if a work passes or fails the test? If not in practice, then in theory?

It's not a question of whether a particular movie passes, really: it's more a question of how many movies fail to pass, and what that says about the Hollywood system.

So I'm not going to penalize a movie for failing the Bechdel test (neither Haywire nor The Avengers passed it, after all), but I pay attention to movies & tv shows that pass it, because they generally tend to have women do more interesting things.

It's so rare that I see the Bechdel tests cited in anything but the specific, and when you're looking at a specific movie it's way more important to consider more complex things.

I think it's cited way more than the root premise of it is applied, but I was wondering what it means to an individual when an given movie passes or fails.

I'm with Dana: I really enjoy reading the Darcy stories, even though probably because she's a reader-proxy.

Which, frankly, I think is different than a Mary Sue. A Mary Sue is, IME, a writer proxy, with powers out of proportion with her position, and a tendency to warp the narrative around her rather like a black hole.

In the particular stories I've been running into, there seems to be a writer-proxy thing going on and the warping narrative effect. I was OK with the Darcy character in the Thor movie, and wouldn't mind reading about her in relation to him. But I'm side-eyeing all these stories where she suddenly becomes integral to the social lives of bunch of super heroes/government agents who have grown up on earth and don't need a guardian angel/pixie girl to introduce them to pop culture.

Musesfool wrote an Avengers/DCU crossover that is a delight: [link]

"Nightwing?" Clint scoffs. "That guy's not real."

Hmm, there's a SPN Summer Fan Art Challenge.

Has to be a summer themed piece.

I quite like this Darcy-centric Avengers fic: [link]

I think the reasons she becomes central to the plot make sense in it.

I have known LJC longer than I've known shrift.

I am old.

I am old.

At my one and only vividcon, I sat up until 2 am with LJC and talked about Robin of Sherwood fandom. Which had its heyday in, like, 1988. I am older than you!