I saw BB again yesterday. Still loved it.

Also, we got the Serenity trailer this time too.

bon bon, thanks for the info. I had some physics nit-pics, but I don't know the first thing about business law. That's one of the things I love about this board--I can get all kinds of new info on shows/movies/books etc. that I would never have thought to ask about, but love knowing once I learn about 'em.

The thing that got me about that nitpick is at first, I took it that the unauthorized activation of the microwave MacGuffin on that freighter did vaporize the water in everyone close to it, hence the missing crew. It came as a surprise to me later that they could sail it through Gotham's elevated train system activated and not have every bystander go off like a roman candle .

I should probably care about the nitpicks that were brought up, but I don't. Maybe after I get over my "omigod! Batman!Squee!" reaction to the movie I'll think about it.

And while seeing it a second time kind of tempered those feelings when I saw Batman standing on the spire all cloacked in black my brain short circuited and all I could manage to think was: GUH! Flail!!! flailt BATMAN GAH": (total asscaps too).

Which would be exciting! But unfortunate.

Being unfamiliar with current comics, I can't say that canon has major implications for how the movie-Batman came across to me. But the underlying implication has always been that he is Trauma Boy, controlled or uncontrolled (or, vacillating between the poles). In the movie, he was Trauma Boy Who Has Read All The Right Self-Help Books. NSM with the vicarious brass-tacks thrill, you know?

Also, any time anybody starts using capital-letter words like Justice and Vengeance, and arguing the theory behind prancing around in tights, my brain flops over in disgust.

Not that anyone was wearing tights, but surely you aren't surprised that happened, Nutty?

And I thought he was less in control in the movie (being chibi-Bats and all) than in the books. Gaining control of the sort he does comes with the losing of the sanity.

When I say "control" throughout the above, I mean "control of the flaming id attempting to take the wheel at every waking moment and most of the sleeping ones."

Any time Batman is reasonable on the meta level for extended periods, he loses me. For me, the whole point of Batman is exploitation of a fantasy of unreasonableness. Which is why I've long thought of Batman as a narcissist -- he's helping Gotham, yeah, but really what he is doing is turning the whole city into the backdrop for his own personal psychodrama. (Which is behavior I don't like, from people, but it's awesome to watch in fiction.)

As for control of skills, I agree with you, that in the movie, his skills weren't altogether smoove, as was proper for the plot.

I've never thought of him as a big id person myself. I'm not an expert with these terms, but to me he'd be better off with more id, since it's his superego that's way out of proportion.

And by "better off" I also mean more boring and dressed more conventionally.

id = ravening selfishness module; superego = nagging/punishing module for rules-following

Basically, Gotham:Batman::self:superego -- but within Batman himself, it's a lot more complicated than the basic Freudian schema. There's plenty of id-like stuff, though, what with the taking pleasure in violence, and the wild self-aggrandizement. Some superego-like stuff, too, with the guilt and the self-punishment and the discipline, but I think that takes somewhat of a back seat to the joy of the beatdown.

I think that takes somewhat of a back seat to the joy of the beatdown

Ah, no, that's not my Batman, not at all. He's all guilt and self-punishment and discipline.