On Angel? Cordelia is strongly motivated by guilt and the desire to make up for past sins. Just like Doyle and Wesley. It's not as big an ongoing thing for Gunn but he's certainly drenched in guilt for his introduction.
Gavin, ask yourself this question. What are you more afraid of, a giant murderous demon or me?
Lilah ,'Destiny'
Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!
Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.
Strega - Jul 24, 2012 4:22:03 pm PDT #9486 of 10458
Frankenbuddha - Jul 24, 2012 6:16:29 pm PDT #9487 of 10458
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"
It's a little weird to me all the Cordy love over there.
That definitely comes from Mark. I'm curious if he's even going to even recognize how badly they are treating the character (for the various reasons they did), and I'm REALLY am curious what his feelings are going to be for the character when we get to "Why do you think I let him out, you bitch?" STAB!
Zenkitty - Jul 24, 2012 6:19:10 pm PDT #9488 of 10458
Every now and then, I think I might actually be a little odd.
Poor Mark. What they're going to do to Cordy is going to break his heart.
Polter-Cow - Jul 24, 2012 6:20:13 pm PDT #9489 of 10458
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!
His braaaaaaain will explode.
What they're going to do to Cordy is going to break his heart.
Yeah, I do feel sad every time he mentions how much he loves Cordelia and how brilliant her character arc is because...yeah. I love season four, but I can't deny that it's not kind to her character.
That definitely comes from Mark.
Well, no, there are tons of Cordy stans in the comments. Loving Cordy is like hating Xander; everyone's doing it! It was definitely somewhat of a surprise to me, but I was never really in the fandom, so I didn't know how popular Cordy was.
Connie Neil - Jul 24, 2012 6:30:08 pm PDT #9490 of 10458
brillig
I've gotten the impression that behavior they dislike in Xander they admire in Cordy (meanness and snideness). I have no studies, analysis, or examples, just my impression.
§ ita § - Jul 24, 2012 6:48:11 pm PDT #9491 of 10458
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I was in the fandom, and I didn't know how popular she was. I mean, I got her Mean Girl schtick on Buffy, but when she moved to Angel and got humanised--I'm still with her, but when she got demonised, and bore that pain with the nobility never yet seen in the Greater Los Angeles area, plus she gets to be a ninja...not interested. And I was surprised to see, may years later, how stalwart her stans are.
DavidS - Jul 24, 2012 6:59:38 pm PDT #9492 of 10458
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."
Poor Mark. What they're going to do to Cordy is going to break his heart.
It's funny because he keeps talking about how great Cordy's character arc is, when Wesley's character arc is about to take a huge left turn and will easily supplant it.
I think they badly fucked up Willow's storyline with magic-addiction instead of will-to-power.
Then they fucked up Cordy's storyline a billion times worse until Fury came in and did a great rescue with "You're Welcome."
But Wes has one of the best character arcs in TV history.
Connie Neil - Jul 24, 2012 8:22:42 pm PDT #9493 of 10458
brillig
But Wes has one of the best character arcs in TV history.
Comparing the two ends of his presence is amazing.
Matt the Bruins fan - Jul 25, 2012 6:03:20 am PDT #9494 of 10458
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand
Then they fucked up Cordy's storyline a billion times worse until Fury came in and did a great rescue with "You're Welcome."
To be fair, I think season 4 did a halfway decent patch job by making her the Manchurian Candidate and retconning all her sparkly nobility as manifestations of Jasmine's influence. What didn't work as a "redemptive" character arc was passable as omens that someone was being taken over by a Lovecraftean horror whose M.O. is killing with kindness. But Fury gave us a great swan song with the real Cordelia back one last time.
EpicTangent - Jul 25, 2012 9:32:23 am PDT #9495 of 10458
Why isn't everyone pelting me with JOY, dammit? - Zenkitty
It's not as big an ongoing thing for Gunn but he's certainly drenched in guilt for his introduction.
"...this heart's not gonna cut itself out."
Gunn came in for some major penance later on as well.