I wouldn't presume to know what was going through Joss' mind, but I certainly never got the impression we were meant to think Angel was actually dead. Nor did the people I was discussing Buffy with at the time, so far as I can recall.

Buffy knew she was sending Angel to Hell after his soul was restored to him, and had no idea that the First Evil or Powers That Be (whichever it was) would spring him after "only" about a century of subjective torture. I think that has as much impact on her story as killing him would have.

She stabbed the man she loved in the gut, used his blood to seal a portal shoved him into a hell dimension to suffer for hundreds of years.

That may have been what happened, but that's not what she thought was happening. She thought she killed him. Did he have to go through the portal to seal it? Could she have cut his hand as Doc did to Dawn? Then realized that Willow's spell had restored his soul and jerked him back from the portal? Would that have worked?

She knew she was sending him to Hell. She assumed that was the same as killing him.

but that's not what she thought was happening

So? What does that have to do with trivialising how other people see it?

I guess that would be close to Joss' answer if it was a direct question:

Q: Did Buffy kill Angel in Becoming?

A: She thought she was.

That really puts it on the same plane as Wesley killing robo-Dad.

That really puts it on the same plane as Wesley killing robo-Dad.

Did that drive Mr. Wyndham Price insane? Did Wesley suffer the grief and guilt for an extended period?

So? What does that have to do with trivialising how other people see it?

I'm talking about my estimation of the narrative. If anything I'm accepting your interpretation of what happened and lowering my critical sense of Becoming. I think it's shittier storytelling if she doesn't kill him.

But then I think that killing off characters and reviving them is cheap and manipulative. It's what Ebert's Book of Movie Cliches calls a Disney Death. Oh no, Balloo the Bear is dead. Just kidding! Happy ending! Oh no, Trusty got runned over and is gone to that heavenly choir. Just kidding! (Disney does periodically really kill off characters like Bambi's mom, Ray the firefly and the Lion King, but they've earned the trope-name.)

Did Wesley suffer the grief and guilt for an extended period?

When did Wesley not suffer grief and guilt? That's his thing. I could not possibly pull out the thread of his willingness to shoot Robo Dad from the grand tapestry of his self-loathing.

I could not possibly pull out the thread of his willingness to shoot Robo Dad from the grand tapestry of his self-loathing.

Then I don't see how it's the same plane. Stabbing Angel was a clear trigger for Buffy. By your estimation it was just another day for Wesley.

You can kill and resurrect characters as many times as you want, in my book. As long as it counts. As long as it's something that has an impact on them or the people around them, or both. I'd rather a costly resurrection than an unremarkable death, in terms of the story.

I can't believe it took you this long to notice she hadn't killed him. I thought all the anal Buffy fans had realised.

What I think is weird that a killed and resurrected Angel seems to be the sort of thing that bothers you. A sent away and returned Angel--if I didn't think he was dead--has nothing to do with Disney for me. Unless Disney rubbed away the tarnish of the hundreds of years of insanity, or made the price that Buffy paid less real.

She sent her first love to hell! How is that not a thing for you? Your breakups must be brutal. How do your exes feel about you?

You can kill and resurrect characters as many times as you want, in my book. As long as it counts.

I don't know how you're counting what counts. Non-trivial? Has an impact? However you're weighting the consequences of death in the Buffy narrative, is too light for me.

How do your exes feel about you?

Most of them came to first wedding. If you think that's a sore spot for me your targeting is off.

She sent her first love to hell! How is that not a thing for you?

Because he came back. What were the consequences of Angel going to hell? He was mildly bestial for three episodes. His hundreds of years of torture and insanity were barely addressed. I've always wished they had an episode where Angel had to face one of the demons who tortured him in the hell dimension. But they can't really do that because there's no coming back from that Hell as a character that anybody would recognize.

Buffy's choice is very consequential for her. I care about her character, what she chose and what it cost her. I still think Joss vitiates that by bringing Angel back.