'A Hole in the World'
Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.
loved that season 'til we ended up in Pylea (which just cheapened it for me, somehow).
It was worth it to me for Fred and her bag of blood
Fred has never been more glorious than that moment, but it shouldn't have been in that season 2. Thematically inconsistent. Also, as a whole, pretty hokey. I'd grimace at giving up the bag of blood, but happily toss Numfar to the wolves to get a seamless S2.
I'd grimace at giving up the bag of blood, but happily toss Numfar to the wolves to get a seamless S2.
Aw. No love for the rams and harts? Poor rams and harts.
No love for the rams and harts? Poor rams and harts.
Not enough payoff. The rest of S2 was nice and twisty and connected and dark. Even with the darker tones and implications, Pylea was badly timed slapstick in comparison.
I thought the Wolf, Ram, and Hart revelation was going to turn into a larger issue about the nature of that particular evil, which is what I think Frank is saying.
Yeah, it would have been nice if they'd explored that more. As it stands, it end up being the first suggestion that Wolfram and Hart was actually named after three distinct entities (which is later referenced by Illyria in season 5.) and that they may in fact be "The Senior Partners" (or possibly even The Senior Senior Partners) but unfortunately they never really did anything with it.
that wonderful moment when Angel throws open his arms and delights in the sunshine. No magic rings, no hoodoo of any sort, not a dream, just out in the open air leaning against a convertible with the sun on his face.
I loved this. I loved Numfar. I just didn't think any of it belonged, and despite my love of some moments (Lorne's heart being in his ass, among them) they weren't worth it, for me.
Throughout the second season of Angel, until Pylea, I really thought I was going to be watching a show that would (for me) eclipse BtVS (I know A:ts does eclipse BtVS for a lot of fans, but not for me). Then there was all this camp. I'm not opposed to camp, but Joss always seemed to object to its use in describing BtVS, and it didn't fit with how they'd been building the series as more adult and darker than BtVS.
ita nails how I feel when she says it shouldn't have been in that season 2.
which is later referenced by Illyria in season 5
Oh right. There was a LITTLE follow-up then.
More of a shout out, really.
Now that I think about it, Angel generally didn't handle it well when they started getting alterna-dimensional: "She", Pylea, Jasmine's original plane of existence (although "Talky meat" was funny) were all pretty weak in a variety of ways ("She" especially so). Just a bit too sci-fi/fantasy or the wrong kind of sci-fi/fantasy.
This conversation is amusing me greatly because my new flatmate was telling me earlier that hes seen a few eps of Angel, but was never a fan. However, the Pylea eps have just been rerunning here, and he thinks they're fabulous. Different strokes, I guess.
Jasmine's original plane of existence
I really loved that, though. The zoom-out "Oh, hell" cliffhanger is one of my favorite moments. But I have mad love for S4 and all its OMGWTFCLIFFHANGER goodness.
I liked the Pylea episodes, but they would've been better startiing out a season than ending one, especially one that had been so dark and twisted. Campy is fun, but it's jarring when it follows something that had been very not campy.
Bag-of-blood Fred and Lorne were the only good things that came out of Pylea. Well, and Numfar. Am I the only one who hated Groo?
I don't remember how I felt then, but I'm inclined to hate Groo right now, and my opinion on Fred is like the wind (generally, a cold wind). Early on though, I thought, "Don't you have an elsewhere to be," whenever she was on screen.
Jars, I think that's something I've always enjoyed about M.E. shows--the varying reaction from fans. It's even hard to pigeonhole fans you know well. I mean, I knew Plei was likely to like such-and-such to do with Wes, or Faith torturing someone, and that Cashmere was going to be happy, when Spike was first shirtless in BtVS, but in general, the shows managed to touch so many of us in different ways.