The line "I'm gonna tear you a new puppet hole, Bitch" just makes me laugh and laugh. Sometimes, thinking of it is the only thing that gets me through the million episodes of Sesame Street I have to watch every week.

I've always wondered how Wolfram & Hart spun one of its prominent lawyers recognizably appearing on the show's last episode (well, I'd assume it as such, anyway) hacking the puppet hosts to bits.

t meMeME Ignoring any ongoing conversation that may be taking place right now, in order to exploit the hivemind: What do you think about Angel's choice to join W&H, in retrospect? I mean, I think he had done it because that was the only way he could see to save Connor (much like ita pointed out way upthread), but I also think it was a big part in his loss-of-his-way all throughout the 5th season, but I also think that in a sort of "looking from the outside" way, it fit his being a vampire. He got his physical advantages, the skills he uses in his fight, from his vampirism, so for him the way of fighting evil by its own strengths, so to speak, is what he's been doing for a while. So joining the law firm and fighting the system from within is in a way continuing what he's been doing, only on a different scale. Of course, I'm wondering what you guys may think.

Also, regarding his decision at the end of the series. To me, it looks like trying to prove the "if nothing that you do matters, all that matters is what you do" theme, in the very sense of fighting in order to show that you can still fight, even if you can't guarantee a victory. But, again, I don't care about what I think, I know that already, I'm more interested in what other people may have to say.

Thanks, in advance!

t OT bit

Matt, what's your tag line from? It cracks me up every time I see it.

t /OT bit

Nilly, what you posted there has me thinking. In a way, Angel (and the others) being at W&H is almost like an inverse of Angel's own situation. Angel is someone on the side of good who is constantly having to fight against the darkness inside him and trying to bend it to his will. At W&H, he and the others are a bit of goodness inside an entity that is generally evil and that wants to bend them to its will and ways. Of course, things aren't quite so neatly dualistic as all that, but by being at W&H, it does put Angel neatly between a rock and a hard place when it comes to being pulled towards the darkness.

I think Angel was good with the decision to join W&H, because I think he'd willingly trade all the MoG's lives for one happy Connor life. Which is what he did.

Good job, Champion.

Of course, he also effectively traded Fred's immortal soul for that happy life, which he might have balked at had he known in advance that was a possible consequence.

Matt, what's your tag line from? It cracks me up every time I see it.

It's a quote from Sgt. Kabukiman, NYPD.

I think he'd willingly trade all the MoG's lives for one happy Connor life. Which is what he did.

Hey now, Lorne survived.

It's hard for me to evaluate because, as I think we've discussed before, the deal Angel took in "Home" was different from the deal they turned out to have in season 5. But either way, he was the most adamant from the start that it was a bad idea, and I don't think his opinion about the badness changed. So I don't think he went in thinking, "We'll be a fifth column and bring the organization down from within, mwah ha ha!" He took a soul-sucking job because it was the only way to provide for his kid.

Also, regarding his decision at the end of the series. To me, it looks like trying to prove the "if nothing that you do matters, all that matters is what you do" theme,

Which decision do you mean? They succeeded in destroying the Circle, and that seemed like more than a symbolic victory. What happened in the alley was a consequence of winning.

Hey now, Lorne survived.

Well, that's true. But Lorne wasn't happy about it.

He took a soul-sucking job because it was the only way to provide for his kid.

And that's a noble thing to do, right? Right?

And that's a noble thing to do, right? Right?

Darn tootin'.

Absolutely.