Do you not think he thought it was right, until he examined what it meant?

I think he had serious misgivings about it, but let hidebound training keep him on track until the test had gone horribly wrong.

I actually never saw that moment in Becoming as inspired primarily by spite (and if I did, I would have to violently dislike Xander, so I'm glad I don't). I think Xander didn't like Angel, and understandably liked Angelus even less, and thought Buffy ought to kill Angelus promptly without dilly-dallying around wondering if Willow would be able to resoul him. There was an extremely short timeframe to work within regarding not ending the world, and I think Xander was right not to risk Buffy getting sentimental.

Now, if Buffy had just finally screwed up her courage to go do it without the external constraints of world-ending, and Xander had blown off delivering Willow's message just because he believed Angelus should die, that'd be different. But that wasn't the case.

Of course, I had no patience for The Gift either, so I'm kind of heartless that way.

Giles also realized he was wrong by seeing what it was doing to Buffy, and came clean with Buffy.

Pfft. Giles knew he was betraying her when he did it. He just wasn't strong enough to defy the Council until he saw the damage.

He just wasn't strong enough to defy the Council until he saw the damage.

I agree with this. I still love my Giles even with his flaws.

I still love my Giles even with his flaws.

Yeah, and that's why I muttered my complaint in small font. I do like all the characters flawed, and I didn't think I really wanted to see another round of this discussion. Turns out I was wrong because it has been interesting. Though at the core I think people generally make these judgments from the gut, out of affinity, rather than reasoned moral assessment.

Much like the characters performing the judged actions, i'd say.

Huh. I never even thought of Giles's actions in "Helpless" as a betrayal. I know that Buffy saw it that way, but it never occurred to me to consider it a betrayal myself. Was it a betrayal when all the other Watchers throughout history did it to their Slayers, or was it only a betrayal with Buffy and Giles because of the kind of relationship they had (i.e., that he was really a father figure to her)?

I think "remove the special powers that an eighteen-year-old expects to have and trap her with a vampire" is always gonna be a betrayal, yeah. It's Just Not Right.

"remove the special powers that an eighteen-year-old expects to have and trap her with a vampire" is always gonna be a betrayal,

What makes it a betrayal and not a test, as you've described it?

I bet Kendra didn't/wouldn't feel betrayed.

ita, yeah, that's what I was getting at (thanks!). Buffy considered it a betrayal because she looked up to him as a companion and father figure, not just as a guide and trainer. But I never thought of it that way. It's another part of her training, and it forced her to come up with a way to defeat a vampire that didn't involve beating him up and staking him; that's got to be a valuable lesson learned.

I do think, in the end, that Giles felt he had betrayed her, but again, I think that's got much more to do with his fatherly feelings towards her. I don't think the test is inherently a betrayal, and I don't think he saw it that way initially.