"But...Anya should be the most familiar with death. And the least familiar with Joyce. No part of this makes sense."

This is true, but the death that she was familiar with was never anyone she cared about. It was all work-related, whereas she's probably developed at least a passing affection for Joyce.

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This was a huge beef for me. I just watched The Wish yesterday, and it's striking how comfortable and not-stiff Anya is with the other kids.

My theory on Anya is that she was not necessarily intended to be later inserted into Cordelia's tactless truth-teller slot for s.4, and so her characterization was retarded from s.3.

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she's probably developed at least a passing affection for Joyce.

Like I said, I don't believe that, either, but the first half of the speech is about not comprehending death, period. It would make marginally more sense if she was saying something like "I knew it hurt to die, but I didn't know it hurt to lose someone, too." I could have bought that, and the point would have been the same.

What Amy said, really -- I think it would have been affecting from anyone, but having a normally stoic character break down made it more so. But the emotion comes at the expense of the character.

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See - I see the first half of the speech as not comprehending natural death, death that wasn't a direct result of a bad thing the deceased did. The death she dealt was by her hand and was justified (in her mind) - it wasn't random and awful in that randomosity.

YFruitPunchSpeechMV, however.

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And again, I think she gets it intellectually. It's the emotional reaction that's blindsiding her - she always acts rationally, she expects others to do the same, and here she is feeling irrational and watching others be the same.

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I always interpreted it as Anya, to some extent, coming to terms with her own mortality. Just like the whole "I could have as little as 50 years left!" line to Xander in... that other episode. This fits with the circumstances of the death, too, as Anya was definitely familiar with the danger of violent death, especially in Sunnydale, but considering how often Buffy kills demons, I'd guess that was ALWAYS a risk. The speech is a moment of her realizing that, like Joyce, she could just up and die one day, no killing necessary.

Hmm. I'm gonna try analyzing the speech point-by-point from this perspective:

But I don't understand! I don't understand how this all happens! How we go through this!

I think she means mourning, here. As far as I know, Anya's never mourned for a person before, and she doesn't know what to do. This idea makes sense in context, as she was just asking what she was supposed to be doing.

I mean, I knew her, and then she's, there's just a body, and I don't understand why she just can't get back in it and not be dead anymore!

Maybe without some sort of physical evidence, Anya has issues accepting the permanence of the death. I could see that - her vengeance never struck me as the subtle variety, so my guess is any people she killed had very obvious things poking out of them, or body parts removed, or something. But more importantly, as a demon I'm pretty sure it would have taken pretty severe physical violence to kill her, and so this is just evidence of her issue understanding the idea of a natural death.

It's stupid! It's mortal and stupid!

This one is the big line that gives me my interpretation, actually. Natural death shouldn't happen. It's stupid.

And, and Xander's crying and not talking, and, and I was having fruit punch, and I thought, well Joyce will never have any more fruit punch, ever, and she'll never have eggs, or yawn or brush her hair, not ever, and no one will explain to me why.

I actually think there's a BIG hint from the first line for Anya's motivation for this emotion. She didn't ever care much for Joyce, I'd be willing to agree, but she cares about Xander, and he's grieving pretty hardcore. When somebody I love grieves, it makes me sad as hell, even when I don't even know the dead person, and when it's a death as unforeseen and untimely as Joyce's, I definitely become conscious of my own mortality. The rest of the speech has nothing to do with Joyce, specifically, but about Anya's magnified terror of her own eventual death. Her emotion is not entirely or even mostly because Joyce is dead - it's because Joyce's death has made her own mortality so obvious.

And when she says it, our mortality is obvious, which is part of why it hits us so hard.

At least, that's my 2¢.

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I'm with Gris on a lot of what he said

"But...Anya should be the most familiar with death. And the least familiar with Joyce. No part of this makes sense."

anya is the most familiar with death itself, but not the aftermath. She gloats over the bodies, then poofs away and isn't affected by what happened. In The Body, I think that she was more affected by the way that people were acting than Joyce's death itself. if you've ever been to a funeral where you didn't really know the deceased, but may be close to one of the family members, you are affected by their grief, even though you may not grieve yourself.

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If Our Town had never existed, would it still bother you?

Yes, I think so. I pulled that out as an example (and she's addressing it from life, where Emily's speech is given after death, about living).

I mean, are you affected by the conscious attempt to capture a feel already captured in fiction, or just the attempt to capture that emotion?

I think I'm put off more by the attempt to capture that emotion. I don't know why, it just felt like manipulation.

If the former, do you know that's what he was trying to do, and if the latter, what's so special about that emotion? Or is it the conscious part?

As far as I know, Joss has never mentioned Our Town, or Emily's speech when discussing The Body.

I mean, I know all about those things intellectually, but I have a very hard time grokking it emotionally, and that's where I live. It is stupid, all of these endings are stupid, and they're part of the human condition, but it doesn't make them suck any less.

This is part of what's odd to me about my own reaction to Anya's little speech, there. I very much rail against death, and if I haven't thought the exact hair-brush/fruit-punch/eggs words, I have otherwise had Anya's reaction to death. It bothered me coming from her. I don't know, I think I watch it and hear this voice telling me "we're going for the big, emotional moment, here."

I sort of feel the same when when Xander punches the wall, and I've known more than one guy who has either put his fist through a wall, or frigged up his hand punching something harder than a human, and have always adored Xander.

t heresy I also want to slap Willow with the damned, "Where's my blue sweater" thing. It went on too long. And yes, I've probably done that, or nearly so, at least in my head, about something as trivial, when faced with the death of a loved one. t /heresy

I never liked the way they wrote Anya as more and more of a Star-Trek alien over the years, given that she seemed pretty familiar with human customs back when she was a demon.

This was a huge beef for me. I just watched The Wish yesterday, and it's striking how comfortable and not-stiff Anya is with the other kids.

Me, too.

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I also want to slap Willow with the damned

That's not heresy around here. People are always wanting to slap Willow.

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People are always wanting to slap Willow.

Take a number.

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