Jayne: We was just about to spring into action, Captain. Complicated escape and rescue op. Wash: I was going to watch. It was very exciting.

'Shindig'


Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!

Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.


IAmNotReallyASpring - Nov 11, 2005 11:49:34 am PST #2420 of 10459
I think Freddy Quimby should walk out of here a free hotel

Is there a show (with more than two seasons) that really lived up to the moral dilemmas presented?

Blake's 7. Moral dilemma was the ground it built its papier-mache sets on.


Jessica - Nov 11, 2005 11:51:52 am PST #2421 of 10459
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

I bet Profit would have, eventually. If they'd let it live.


§ ita § - Nov 11, 2005 12:40:56 pm PST #2422 of 10459
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I would love it if they hadn't -- if they'd been gleefully repercussion free.


Jessica - Nov 11, 2005 1:54:05 pm PST #2423 of 10459
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

Oh I didn't mean for Profit himself, but the characters around him -- after all, to have a moral dilemna, you have to have morals.


Strega - Nov 11, 2005 2:01:34 pm PST #2424 of 10459

The discussion about how they can't possibly kill Willow comes after Willow has threatened to kill Dawn. Or at least, to stop her from whining, which I think must mean killing her, because what else would work?

Profit had plenty of moral problems. It's just that they're not exactly the same when you know that the character making the decision is utterly unconcerned with doing what is morally right. But he certainly enjoys presenting other characters with dilemmas. The finale, in particular, has a doozy. Hilarity ensues.

(x-posting 'cause I'm very slow...)


Narrator - Nov 11, 2005 2:05:30 pm PST #2425 of 10459
The evil is this way?

The discussion about how they can't possibly kill Willow comes after Willow has threatened to kill Dawn. Or at least, to stop her from whining, which I think must mean killing her, because what else would work?

I don't think death could stop Dawn from whining. Her whines were immortal (but not "The Immortal", whoever-the-heck he's supposed to be, besides a plot device to make Spike and Angel jealous and even so, who cares and ... oh look, a shiny nickel!).


Matt the Bruins fan - Nov 11, 2005 2:29:12 pm PST #2426 of 10459
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

I'm now imagining a little green ball of energy shrieking "Get out! Get Out! GET OUT!!!" and trying in vain to swipe shiny objects from countertops when no one is looking.


Kalshane - Nov 11, 2005 2:59:23 pm PST #2427 of 10459
GS: If you had to choose between kicking evil in the head or the behind, which would you choose, and why? Minsc: I'm not sure I understand the question. I have two feet, do I not? You do not take a small plate when the feast of evil welcomes seconds.

That makes me wonder if crazy people still see her as a big green ball of energy.


Camcam - Nov 11, 2005 3:36:07 pm PST #2428 of 10459
When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk. --Tuco

Maybe the writers of BtVS and Angel (and other shows that don't seem to let their characters suffer the consequences of their choices) aren't really cheating, or being lazy; maybe they really believe that there is always another choice. That one never truly has to choose between destroying your sister or destroying the world, period. It reminds me of something from ST:TNG--a show that liked to have it both ways, I think--when Worf said that what he had learned from Picard is that there are always options. The same idea is explored in what, the Wrath of Khan, with the Kobiyashi Maru test. Or whatever the heck it's called. Kirk chews out Saavik for not recognizing that there may be no-win situations but it turns out he solved it by changing the computer program. I'm not saying I believe this, but I can see a defensible point of view that there's always a way out of the moral dilemma.


§ ita § - Nov 11, 2005 3:40:44 pm PST #2429 of 10459
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I hate there always being an option. Sometimes, the sister needs to bite it.

However, I can buy Buffy being so traumatised by having made that decision once that she'd never "kill" or kill another loved one to save the world, and would rather die than sacrifice any single other person.