I don't think that it makes it hard to judge the characters, it makes it hard to determine what happened after they died.
Yeah, I guess I mean the implications of soul-having rather than afterlife.
I'm sorry, dad. You know I would never have tried to save River's life if I had known there was a dinner party at risk.
Simon ,'Safe'
Buffy and Angel 1: BUFFYNANGLE4EVA!!!!!1!
Is it better the second time around? Or the third? Or tenth? This is the place to come when you have a burning desire to talk about an old episode that was just re-run.
DavidS - Aug 01, 2005 7:28:37 am PDT #1531 of 10458
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."
Vortex - Aug 01, 2005 7:49:36 am PDT #1532 of 10458
"Cry havoc and let slip the boobs of war!" -- Miracleman
Right. well, as Angel said "the demon doesn't get your soul, that's gone" I can't recall if there was ever a connection between having a soul and a (positive) afterlife, i.e. is there ever a demon that goes to "heaven".
tiggy - Aug 01, 2005 10:00:25 am PDT #1533 of 10458
I do believe in killing the messenger, you know why? Because it sends a message. ~ Damon Salvatore
so say there is an afterlife and Buffy and Angel(Liam) meet up there. is he even going to have a clue who she is? since, ya know, the mythology says that the soul is "gone" and the soul is what i would assume would be in the afterlife.
so if Liam's soul went to the afterlife after Darla vamped him, he won't know what his physical body did after that fact.
this always frustrated me about the Whedonverse.
ChiKat - Aug 01, 2005 10:02:12 am PDT #1534 of 10458
That man was going to shank me. Over an omelette. Two eggs and a slice of government cheese. Is that what my life is worth?
But, the gyspy curse restored Angel's soul to him.
§ ita § - Aug 01, 2005 10:02:22 am PDT #1535 of 10458
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Liam never met Buffy, so he wouldn't know her. I don't know what happens to vampires when they die -- is it more than an on-off switch? What did Darla have to say?
tiggy - Aug 01, 2005 10:05:09 am PDT #1536 of 10458
I do believe in killing the messenger, you know why? Because it sends a message. ~ Damon Salvatore
good point, ChiKat. i guess Spike would essentially be the same thing.
though, how do they know what happened to them pre-curse? how do they have those memories of being a bad-ass vampire?
§ ita § - Aug 01, 2005 10:09:37 am PDT #1537 of 10458
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Did the gypsy curse give Angel Liam's soul back?
tiggy - Aug 01, 2005 10:15:23 am PDT #1538 of 10458
I do believe in killing the messenger, you know why? Because it sends a message. ~ Damon Salvatore
I would assume so, but from what we've been shown Liam was pretty much a bastard and re-souled Angel never struck me as such.
do you think the gypsy's just pulled a soul out of the ether and didn't care if they were cursing the right person or not?
§ ita § - Aug 01, 2005 10:16:34 am PDT #1539 of 10458
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
do you think the gypsy's just pulled a soul out of the ether and didn't care if they were cursing the right person or not?
Angel was the one being cursed -- not the soul, in my reading. They may have given him a fresh new soul.
Topic!Cindy - Aug 01, 2005 10:20:14 am PDT #1540 of 10458
What is even happening?
so if Liam's soul went to the afterlife after Darla vamped him, he won't know what his physical body did after that fact.
The Restoration Curse recalled Liam's soul from "the ether." In the Jossverse, the soul does not seem to be sentient. Or at least, the soul does not does not seem to house all sentience, because we know people like Jesse knew Xander et al, after vamping, as well as he did before vamping. And we know that having his soul, having it taken away, having it restored (and repeat) did not affect Angel's memory more than momentarily.
Did the gypsy curse give Angel Liam's soul back?
I say yes, because it is a "Restoration" curse, not an "Ensoulment" curse. It makes it much simpler to discuss, as well.