As much as I adored Bashir on DS9, they asspulled on him, I'll swear.

Oh yeah. Also, Bashir/Ezri in S7 didn't work for me at all. But not enough so that it seriously interfered with my enjoying the show.

Hate the episode, fine. Plenty of people do. But arguing that they tossed it in as filler solely for the sake of a throwaway joke makes no sense to me.

I haven't rewatched it (or A:ts season 5 at all, to be fair). What do you think was the purpose of it? It felt like, if not filler to me then, a stand alone--a stand alone that came too late in the season, when there was still much to accomplish.

eta...

Or see ita:

I have to say, I do think that TGIQ was about the worst Angel episode. I judge it extra-harshly, though, because of its placement in the season. Just like my hatred of the Pylea in S2 is exacerbated by it being how a kick-ass season ended. Keep the fluff somewhere else. Pacing was just fucked.

I am also very hard pressed to think of a series that lasted for more than a 3-4 years, and that had any reliance on a presumed continuity, that didn't eventually succomb to a round of "wouldn't it be cool if", or "this would be neat", or "we need to shake things up" that in turn sacrafices some of the continuity/integrity somehow. Can anybody think of one?

Babylon 5

I'm not arguing that it's not fluffy, or that they probably could have done something better with the third-to-the-last episode. And I'm not arguing that it was a better Buffy/Angel resolution than "Chosen." I just don't agree that it was solely for the purpose of a "slash joke", or whatever Jim's exact words were.

I laughed like a loon, but you're not going to find me saying that it's high art. It was dumb. Sometimes I like dumb.

I just don't agree that it was solely for the purpose of a "slash joke", or whatever Jim's exact words were.

He's disclaimed that as hyperbole already.

solely for the sake of a throwaway joke

I have two problems with TGIQ.

(1) The handling of Buffy. Others have described the problem above. I'd phrase it as, I can't see Buffy hooking up with the Boyfriend that was described.

Nothing inherently wrong with giving an ep to "Where Is Buffy Now?" (OK, in the 3rd to last ep, with the Big Bad not even identified yet, not good -- but that's more timing than an inherently bad idea.) And after "Chosen," Buffy having a spree isn't an unreasonable path. But not the complete meltdown that was implied. Also, don't do it if you can't get SMG for at least a cameo and a spoken line or two.

(2) The handling of Andrew. He was chosen to collect the Potential and deliver the "we don't trust you any more" message. And he handled it well. Plus, his journey in S7 BtVS involved facing up to reality. So suddenly he's living a James Bond fantasy?

Although that's easier to fix. Instead of the two Bond girls, give him a boyfriend.

He's disclaimed that as hyperbole already.

It was in reply to a comment you said, so I didn't catch it on first read-through. Sorry.

Anyway, lunch is probably a better option than digging myself any deeper into this hole.

An episode which I still suspect existed purely to have that slash-pandering little exchange about 'that one time'.

That line was in "Power Play," not "The Girl in Question." God, I hate my brain.

I think TGiQ was a pretty impressive collection of bad ideas, but...not all bad ideas are pandering. If I wanted to pander to fans, I wouldn't spend most of an episode making a jokes about how dumb Angel and Spike are, and how pathetic their feelings for Buffy are. That's what I'd do if I was trying to enrage fans.

Which I am trying to do at times, so I know what I'm talking about.

I think TGiQ was a pretty impressive collection of bad ideas, but...not all bad ideas are pandering.

Agreed. I stick with my original impression that TGiQ was DG and DK's Excellent Adventure, their farewell letter to the universe, and that they both probably fought over which one of them got to be Spike when writing the episode. Well, maybe not the last part.

I didn't like the episode, but I don't think it was pandering. I think it was an orgy of self-indulgent writing of the "one last time" type gone a bit wrong, and I'd bet they had a lot more fun writing it than I did watching it. (The Illyria stuff in TGiQ was fairly decent. It's just the wacky adventures in Rome that made me pound my head on my desk.)

I swear Spike ruined seasons 6 and 7 for me.

Me, too (well, the second half of season 6). See also: Season 5 of Angel. Hated most of it.