I am also very hard pressed to think of a series that lasted for more than a 3-4 years, and that had any reliance on a presumed continuity, that didn't eventually succomb to a round of "wouldn't it be cool if", or "this would be neat", or "we need to shake things up" that in turn sacrafices some of the continuity/integrity somehow. Can anybody think of one?

Babylon 5

I'm not arguing that it's not fluffy, or that they probably could have done something better with the third-to-the-last episode. And I'm not arguing that it was a better Buffy/Angel resolution than "Chosen." I just don't agree that it was solely for the purpose of a "slash joke", or whatever Jim's exact words were.

I laughed like a loon, but you're not going to find me saying that it's high art. It was dumb. Sometimes I like dumb.

I just don't agree that it was solely for the purpose of a "slash joke", or whatever Jim's exact words were.

He's disclaimed that as hyperbole already.

solely for the sake of a throwaway joke

I have two problems with TGIQ.

(1) The handling of Buffy. Others have described the problem above. I'd phrase it as, I can't see Buffy hooking up with the Boyfriend that was described.

Nothing inherently wrong with giving an ep to "Where Is Buffy Now?" (OK, in the 3rd to last ep, with the Big Bad not even identified yet, not good -- but that's more timing than an inherently bad idea.) And after "Chosen," Buffy having a spree isn't an unreasonable path. But not the complete meltdown that was implied. Also, don't do it if you can't get SMG for at least a cameo and a spoken line or two.

(2) The handling of Andrew. He was chosen to collect the Potential and deliver the "we don't trust you any more" message. And he handled it well. Plus, his journey in S7 BtVS involved facing up to reality. So suddenly he's living a James Bond fantasy?

Although that's easier to fix. Instead of the two Bond girls, give him a boyfriend.

He's disclaimed that as hyperbole already.

It was in reply to a comment you said, so I didn't catch it on first read-through. Sorry.

Anyway, lunch is probably a better option than digging myself any deeper into this hole.

An episode which I still suspect existed purely to have that slash-pandering little exchange about 'that one time'.

That line was in "Power Play," not "The Girl in Question." God, I hate my brain.

I think TGiQ was a pretty impressive collection of bad ideas, but...not all bad ideas are pandering. If I wanted to pander to fans, I wouldn't spend most of an episode making a jokes about how dumb Angel and Spike are, and how pathetic their feelings for Buffy are. That's what I'd do if I was trying to enrage fans.

Which I am trying to do at times, so I know what I'm talking about.

I think TGiQ was a pretty impressive collection of bad ideas, but...not all bad ideas are pandering.

Agreed. I stick with my original impression that TGiQ was DG and DK's Excellent Adventure, their farewell letter to the universe, and that they both probably fought over which one of them got to be Spike when writing the episode. Well, maybe not the last part.

I didn't like the episode, but I don't think it was pandering. I think it was an orgy of self-indulgent writing of the "one last time" type gone a bit wrong, and I'd bet they had a lot more fun writing it than I did watching it. (The Illyria stuff in TGiQ was fairly decent. It's just the wacky adventures in Rome that made me pound my head on my desk.)

I swear Spike ruined seasons 6 and 7 for me.

Me, too (well, the second half of season 6). See also: Season 5 of Angel. Hated most of it.

TGiQ was a farce, a send-up of every Italian movie/show cliche ever. I liked it. Heck, I loved it.

I thought most of AtS S5 was quite enjoyable (cue the mutters of "Well, she likes Spike, go figure"), because it gave us a chance to look at the twisted relationship of Spike and Angel.

I thought "Chosen" was hokey and corny beyond watching. The only time I really liked Faith was on Angel after they busted her out of jail. Buffy whined a lot.

Classify me as you may.

It's just the wacky adventures in Rome that made me pound my head on my desk.

Although it did give us the line, "Ptui! Let us never speak of it again!"