I am down with the shipperness, but Mary Sue? I gotta go read the blog.
Jayne, your mouth is talking. You might wanna look to that.
Mal ,'Serenity'
Boxed Set, Vol. II: "It's a Cookbook...A Cookbook!!"
A topic for the discussion of Farscape, Smallville, and Due South. Beware possible invasions of Stargate, Highlander, or pretty much any other "genre" show that captures our fancy. Expect Adult Content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.
Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.
Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.
This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.
§ ita § - Apr 03, 2006 4:33:53 am PDT #8036 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Betsy HP - Apr 03, 2006 4:45:40 am PDT #8037 of 10001
If I only had a brain...
If Rose were a Mary Sue, she wouldn't screw up. She also wouldn't (spoiler for Christmas Invasion) be helpless in the Doctor's absence. (Which I didn't like, but had to accept in that context.)
Fiona, that was my favorite bit: when the Doctor said "Do you want me to change back?" and Rose said "YES!" and he froze, obviously having expected a no.
§ ita § - Apr 03, 2006 5:29:55 am PDT #8038 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Having read the entry, I'm no more convinced. She's a viewer's gaze character, but that's not the same sort of sugary authorial insertion I think makes a Mary Sue so special.
eta: And I think making the viewer's gaze character a bit more effective and sexual has a lot to do with changing audiences.
Betsy HP - Apr 03, 2006 7:02:39 am PDT #8039 of 10001
If I only had a brain...
It's an overall glowing review -- I agree that the reviewer that it's wonderful to see that the Companion's absence from her family causes real trauma -- our girl just vanished for no apparent reason.
As to helping out the Doctor (which seems to be the main accusation, apart from being pretty, which is frankly a given from a female lead) -- there are two options available: the passive girl who is there to be rescued and to give the Doctor a chance to explain things, or the agent (in the litcrit sense) who acts effectively. Hands up everybody who prefers Tegan to Sarah Jane Smith.
Rose certainly could have been a Mary Sue, but I think she has too many flaws and limitations. A Mary Sue would drive the Tardis, become a virtuoso with the sonic screwdriver, and save the Doctor's life every episode.
Theodosia - Apr 03, 2006 7:06:30 am PDT #8040 of 10001
'we all walk this earth feeling we are frauds. The trick is to be grateful and hope the caper doesn't end any time soon"
As it is, she's only saved him maybe twice! See, not a Mary Sue. :-)
(In case anyone is wondering, my big old Kid Dynamo novel has its Mary Sue-like tendencies, so I only poke fun in a light way.)
Betsy HP - Apr 03, 2006 7:21:57 am PDT #8041 of 10001
If I only had a brain...
she's only saved him maybe twice!
Only when it *really* counts. Hmmmm....
Kathy A - Apr 03, 2006 7:30:43 am PDT #8042 of 10001
We're very stretchy. - Connie Neil
Hands up everybody who prefers Tegan to Sarah Jane Smith.
I liked them both, but in very different ways. Sarah Jane was a better foil for the Doctor in exposition-mode, and had excellent chemistry with Tom Baker's Doctor, but Tegan was just so wonderful in her bloody-mindedness. Also, I loved the fact that she left him from being tired of all the death and mayhem that surrounds him--made Internet!Clive in "Rose" a truthteller when he said that the Doctor's one true Companion is Death.
Matt the Bruins fan - Apr 03, 2006 7:46:48 am PDT #8043 of 10001
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand
Hands up everybody who prefers Tegan to Sarah Jane Smith.
I actually don't think Sarah Jane is a good example here, as she did show a fair amount of initiative and competence on her own (even if it was paired with a lot of screaming when menaced by aliens). Jo Grant and Peri were much more companions in the "What's that, Doctor?" mode.
Betsy HP - Apr 03, 2006 7:47:25 am PDT #8044 of 10001
If I only had a brain...
True dat. When the Doctor shows up, it is never a good thing. He may well be avoiding a far worse thing, but the collateral damage is immense.
§ ita § - Apr 03, 2006 7:48:58 am PDT #8045 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
When the Doctor shows up, it is never a good thing. He may well be avoiding a far worse thing, but the collateral damage is immense.
Sorta like SG1.