A topic for the discussion of Farscape, Smallville, and Due South. Beware possible invasions of Stargate, Highlander, or pretty much any other "genre" show that captures our fancy. Expect Adult Content and discussion of the Big Gay Sex.
Whitefont all unaired in the U.S. ep discussion, identifying it as such, and including the show and ep title in blackfont.
Blackfont is allowed after the show has aired on the east coast.
This is NOT a general TV discussion thread.
Not if one assumes she's not talking about every decision (if I part my hair on the right, hundreds will die) but about the moments in which you have to perform atrocities to save lives, in which there are no other choices for survival.
But she does the conflation herself, between "sometimes" and "inevitably" - I'll repost below:
Sometimes terrible things have to be done. Inevitably, each and every one of us will have to face a moment where we have to commit that horrible sin.
If it's "sometimes" that she's talking about, then it's legitimate to claim under certain limited circumstances that only two (or a small number) choices exist. But when you get to "inevitably each and every one of us," then you're playing fast-and-loose with who gets what choices when, and it's fair to call fallacy.
[There's also a school of thought that the job of leadership is the job of avoiding situations in which there are no good choices, but the point here is that claiming that a bad-choice situation (now with big scary death and atrocity!) is "inevitable" for every person is a big fat lie.]
If it's "sometimes" that she's talking about, then it's legitimate to claim under certain limited circumstances that only two (or a small number) choices exist. But when you get to "inevitably each and every one of us," then you're playing fast-and-loose with who gets what choices when, and it's fair to call fallacy.
I don't get it--with "sometimes" she narrows her pool, and within that pool, some things are inevitable. I don't see why you insist that these things are inevitable
outside
the pool. I do think the language could have been streamlined, but that it's much easier for me to assume she's being a little sloppy about talking about binary Gordian Knots rather than characterising
every
important decision.
horrible sin
I think these words migh actually back up the idea that cain wants to , or thinks she deserves to die. Describeing a choice as a horrible sin sounds like someone looking for punishment.
I'm still not sure about those SG-1 spoilers.
I mean Season 9 is barely half through. Anything could happen between now and when the eps are shot.
Seems weird and fanficcy.
Since the "each and every one of us" she's talking about is people in positions of military authority during the current war against the Cylons who have already killed 99% of all humanity, I don't think it's so far-fetched to assume that they will all, at some point, come face to face with an impossible situation.
What she doesn't realize is that Adama, who has a first and a last name, and is in the opening credits, will nearly always be given a third choice. She, being a character with no first name and destined to die after only three episodes, has far more limited options.
I've had to watch a lot of kids be put into body bags. They're covered with flags and they float out that airlock.
Anyone else find it a little weird that Galactica and Pegasus have left a trail of dead, frozen bodies floating in space?
But I think Moore is just following naval tradition here.
I don't see why you insist that these things are inevitable outside the pool.
But they're two different sentences, with two different restrictive phrase and two different subjects -- and her rhetoric pretends that one sentence leads naturally to the next, which is not true.
Sometimes terrible things have to be done.
"Sometimes" -- limits the circumstances. Who does these terrible things? Vague somebodies not named.
Move on to "cake atrocity or body bags!" from here, and I got no argument with her rhetoric. (Although I disagree in some ways with her argument, it's a legitimate argument to make.)
Inevitably, each and every one of us will have to face a moment where we have to commit that horrible sin.
If "sometimes" restricts the pool of cake/death situations, then "inevitably, each and every one of us" opens it right back up. "Inevitably" is the word that talks about circumstances -- and there is no contextual cue to assume that it's inevitably
only within pre-stated circumstances,
because the word isn't that ambiguous -- but it's made even more egregious with the emphatic "each and every one of us."
Who made the hard choices in the first sentence? We don't know -- it was intentionally in the passive voice, with a vague referent. Who makes the hard choices in this sentence? Everybody.
Everybody + inevitably != vague somebody + sometimes. To argue from the first sentence is rhetorically fair (though a vague subject is nobody's friend); to argue from the second (alone or in conjunction with the first) is a rhetorical fallacy, and crappy or underhanded rhetoric.
Um, Daniel?
One of the things that happened when S9 was shot was that Claudia Black gave birth to her actual baby -- last Fall. The pregnancy is being written into the show, because the scenes writing it in have already been shot.
What she doesn't realize is that Adama, who has a first and a last name, and is in the opening credits, will nearly always be given a third choice. She, being a character with no first name and destined to die after only three episodes, has far more limited options.
She was probably thinking, "Well, that
other
Cain on that
other
Battlestar Galactia TV show probably survived...."
Everybody.
Everybody != every one of us
There's no reason at all to assume that her "us" includes all of humanity. She's talking to Kara about military decisions in a time of war, which severely limits the pool of people said decisions are allowed to be made by.