So, how was your summer? Mine was fun. Saw some fish. Went mad with hunger. Hallucinated a whole bunch.

Angel ,'Conviction (1)'


Spike's Bitches 22: You've got Angel breath  

[NAFDA] Spike-centric discussion. Lusty, lewd (only occasionally crude), risque (and frisque), bawdy (Oh, lawdy!), flirty ('cuz we're purty), raunchy talk inside. Caveat lector.


Scrappy - Feb 09, 2005 11:53:17 am PST #134 of 10001
Life moves pretty fast. You don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

No, but they are the ones currently making the rules for the rest of the country,

Yes, this. My mom is a devout churchgoer and has spent the last few months at millions of meetings because the conservative wing of the Episcopal Church wants to force policy to change, because the church voted to allow gay clergy. She feels as if the standards of tolerance and aceptance and activism which made her church home to her her whole life are being taken away and this scares and saddens her.


Jen - Feb 09, 2005 11:56:55 am PST #135 of 10001
love's a dream you enter though I shake and shake and shake you

From way back:

What about it pings you that way?

It's much more a marriage-positive statement than a sex-positive one, and it seems to ignore the idea that you can have abusive, horrible sex with a spouse (even one who started out nice) and wonderful, tender, deeply emotional sex with someone with whom you haven't signed a marriage license. It also neglects the wonderful sexual relationships formed by people who couldn't be married even if they wanted to, except in Massachusetts.

The statement puts a condition on the enjoyment of sex that is unrealistic for some, unappealing for more, and impossible for others.

Sex-positive, to me, means that (provided everyone is a consenting adult) sex is good. Period, end of sentence. Marriage, monogamy, and declarations of love and eternal fidelity are all optional; none of them definitely make sex better in any moral or satisfaction-rating sense.


Atropa - Feb 09, 2005 12:04:13 pm PST #136 of 10001
The artist formerly associated with cupcakes.

Sex-positive, to me, means that (provided everyone is a consenting adult) sex is good. Period, end of sentence. Marriage, monogamy, and declarations of love and eternal fidelity are all optional; none of them definitely make sex better in any moral or satisfaction-rating sense.

Jen, would you mind terribly if I saved this and used it every time someone tells me that I can't possibly be sex-positive because I'm married, monogomous, or not bi-sexual? It would save me a lot of ranting and hand-waving.


DavidS - Feb 09, 2005 12:05:13 pm PST #137 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

I think that our society treats sex (get ready for a big contradiction!) both too casually and too seriously.

To me this parses as "we don't treat sex honestly." And I think that we don't because there are many competing agendas about what we should be doing with our bodies.

As long as you’re not saying you don’t have any respect for me, I’m cool.

I do respect you.

Me too. (Which is pretty surprising, given how generally intolerant I am of Hec's tendency to oversimplify moral/social issues. But on these...yeah. Right there with him.)

Uh..Woo hoo?


Topic!Cindy - Feb 09, 2005 12:06:41 pm PST #138 of 10001
What is even happening?

Sex-positive, to me, means that (provided everyone is a consenting adult) sex is good. Period, end of sentence. Marriage, monogamy, and declarations of love and eternal fidelity are all optional; none of them definitely make sex better in any moral or satisfaction-rating sense.

Now, I'm not talking life-long monogamy, marriage, orientation, or any of that. That's a person's personal morality and tastes. But sex isn't ever only good. You can't isolate the goodness in sex from the potential for the badness that sometimes comes riding along with it, but I see it treated like it can be good period. You can't put sex in a box. You could probably have sex in a box, like a fridge box or something, but that's another thread. Wait. This is the right thread.


juliana - Feb 09, 2005 12:07:17 pm PST #139 of 10001
I’d be lying if I didn’t say that I miss them all tonight…

I can't possibly be sex-positive because I'm married, monogomous, or not bi-sexual

Huh. That's an interesting interpretation of the text....


Jen - Feb 09, 2005 12:07:24 pm PST #140 of 10001
love's a dream you enter though I shake and shake and shake you

Jilli, it's all yours. I hope it helps. Lord knows I lost a few "friends" in the goth scene here when I got married and chose for the vast majority of my marriage to be monogamous.


DavidS - Feb 09, 2005 12:10:47 pm PST #141 of 10001
"Look, son, if it's good enough for Shirley Bassey, it's good enough for you."

You can't put sex in a box.

"Nobody puts sex in the corner." t /dirty dancing


Nicole - Feb 09, 2005 12:12:19 pm PST #142 of 10001
I'm getting the pig!

Now I'm an athiest. If I had to count my sexual partners I think it would take paper and pencil.

I'm confused. Are you saying that one has something to do with the other?

She's been dating the guy for 2 months.

Oh, dear. Marriage after ten years of dating is hard enough. Good luck to them both.

Marriage, monogamy, and declarations of love and eternal fidelity are all optional; none of them definitely make sex better in any moral or satisfaction-rating sense.

Well done. I'ma have this sewn on a pillow.


Atropa - Feb 09, 2005 12:12:37 pm PST #143 of 10001
The artist formerly associated with cupcakes.

Jilli, it's all yours. I hope it helps. Lord knows I lost a few "friends" in the goth scene here when I got married and chose for the vast majority of my marriage to be monogamous.

I was very surprised to find out that my views are oh-so quaintly Victorian, but no one holds that against me because it goes so well with my wardrobe.

But sex isn't ever only good. You can't isolate the goodness in sex from the potential for the badness that sometimes comes riding along with it, but I see it treated like it can be good period.

I also agree with this. I've just never been able to get to that part of the discussion with very vocal "I'm SEX-POSITIVE and YOU'RE NOT" people, for the reasons I stated previously.