No, but they are the ones currently making the rules for the rest of the country,

Yes, this. My mom is a devout churchgoer and has spent the last few months at millions of meetings because the conservative wing of the Episcopal Church wants to force policy to change, because the church voted to allow gay clergy. She feels as if the standards of tolerance and aceptance and activism which made her church home to her her whole life are being taken away and this scares and saddens her.

From way back:

What about it pings you that way?

It's much more a marriage-positive statement than a sex-positive one, and it seems to ignore the idea that you can have abusive, horrible sex with a spouse (even one who started out nice) and wonderful, tender, deeply emotional sex with someone with whom you haven't signed a marriage license. It also neglects the wonderful sexual relationships formed by people who couldn't be married even if they wanted to, except in Massachusetts.

The statement puts a condition on the enjoyment of sex that is unrealistic for some, unappealing for more, and impossible for others.

Sex-positive, to me, means that (provided everyone is a consenting adult) sex is good. Period, end of sentence. Marriage, monogamy, and declarations of love and eternal fidelity are all optional; none of them definitely make sex better in any moral or satisfaction-rating sense.

Sex-positive, to me, means that (provided everyone is a consenting adult) sex is good. Period, end of sentence. Marriage, monogamy, and declarations of love and eternal fidelity are all optional; none of them definitely make sex better in any moral or satisfaction-rating sense.

Jen, would you mind terribly if I saved this and used it every time someone tells me that I can't possibly be sex-positive because I'm married, monogomous, or not bi-sexual? It would save me a lot of ranting and hand-waving.

I think that our society treats sex (get ready for a big contradiction!) both too casually and too seriously.

To me this parses as "we don't treat sex honestly." And I think that we don't because there are many competing agendas about what we should be doing with our bodies.

As long as you’re not saying you don’t have any respect for me, I’m cool.

I do respect you.

Me too. (Which is pretty surprising, given how generally intolerant I am of Hec's tendency to oversimplify moral/social issues. But on these...yeah. Right there with him.)

Uh..Woo hoo?

Sex-positive, to me, means that (provided everyone is a consenting adult) sex is good. Period, end of sentence. Marriage, monogamy, and declarations of love and eternal fidelity are all optional; none of them definitely make sex better in any moral or satisfaction-rating sense.

Now, I'm not talking life-long monogamy, marriage, orientation, or any of that. That's a person's personal morality and tastes. But sex isn't ever only good. You can't isolate the goodness in sex from the potential for the badness that sometimes comes riding along with it, but I see it treated like it can be good period. You can't put sex in a box. You could probably have sex in a box, like a fridge box or something, but that's another thread. Wait. This is the right thread.

I can't possibly be sex-positive because I'm married, monogomous, or not bi-sexual

Huh. That's an interesting interpretation of the text....

Jilli, it's all yours. I hope it helps. Lord knows I lost a few "friends" in the goth scene here when I got married and chose for the vast majority of my marriage to be monogamous.

You can't put sex in a box.

"Nobody puts sex in the corner." t /dirty dancing

Now I'm an athiest. If I had to count my sexual partners I think it would take paper and pencil.

I'm confused. Are you saying that one has something to do with the other?

She's been dating the guy for 2 months.

Oh, dear. Marriage after ten years of dating is hard enough. Good luck to them both.

Marriage, monogamy, and declarations of love and eternal fidelity are all optional; none of them definitely make sex better in any moral or satisfaction-rating sense.

Well done. I'ma have this sewn on a pillow.

Jilli, it's all yours. I hope it helps. Lord knows I lost a few "friends" in the goth scene here when I got married and chose for the vast majority of my marriage to be monogamous.

I was very surprised to find out that my views are oh-so quaintly Victorian, but no one holds that against me because it goes so well with my wardrobe.

But sex isn't ever only good. You can't isolate the goodness in sex from the potential for the badness that sometimes comes riding along with it, but I see it treated like it can be good period.

I also agree with this. I've just never been able to get to that part of the discussion with very vocal "I'm SEX-POSITIVE and YOU'RE NOT" people, for the reasons I stated previously.