Jilli, it's all yours. I hope it helps. Lord knows I lost a few "friends" in the goth scene here when I got married and chose for the vast majority of my marriage to be monogamous.

I was very surprised to find out that my views are oh-so quaintly Victorian, but no one holds that against me because it goes so well with my wardrobe.

But sex isn't ever only good. You can't isolate the goodness in sex from the potential for the badness that sometimes comes riding along with it, but I see it treated like it can be good period.

I also agree with this. I've just never been able to get to that part of the discussion with very vocal "I'm SEX-POSITIVE and YOU'RE NOT" people, for the reasons I stated previously.

Well, I've had to. And she said box. huh huh huh. And I've noticed Hec to be a man of conviction, but not necessarily intolerant. But maybe we have the same intolerances.

Would you, could you, in a box? / Would you, could you, with an ox?

Ahem. Sorry.

Sex of course has the potential to be very, very bad when it's used to hurt another person. But that's not the fault of sex--it's the fault of the person who is using sex to hurt another.

The nature of sex itself, the act of copulating with another person to the pleasure of both, is good. Beautiful. A work of art. (My god, I sound like such a hippy.) Married or not, straight or not, with one person at a time or not--these things are irrelevant except to the people involved.

You want to wait until you're married? My blessings to you and your spouse. You want to screw the entire football team with a smile on your face, and it's really not because you have no self-esteem but rather because you simply love having sex? Here's a big box of condoms--have fun! One is not inherently a better action than the other. It's all a matter of preference, and preferences should be respected, not enforced.

Oh wow! We may need to talk… There is one kid in my class who grew up in Appalachia. Most of his family is still there. It’s interesting hearing his perspectives on stuff. Unfortunately, I completely disagreed with him on something today and made myself look really stupid, but oh well.

I have lots of stories, so ping me on my profile addy if you want to talk via email or if you want my phone number (or give me yours so I can call you). If you let me know what the syllabus out line is, I'm sure I can find tales to fit whatever you're discussing in class.

You can't isolate the goodness in sex from the potential for the badness that sometimes comes riding along with it, but I see it treated like it can be good period.

Hmm. I think individual acts of sex can be only good. I think a lifetime of sex can be mostly good.

I think sex is like food -- a lot of the time it is value-neutral. Or, as my favorite bit of the I Ching says, "No praise; no blame."

But Cindy, I think you can, Just as I can say love is good, even though it can lead to heartbreak and confusion and pain and creativity is good, even though it can lead to frustration and longing and failure. The fact that these good things can have bad outcomes doesn't negate their goodness.

I'm confused. Are you saying that one has something to do with the other?

Sorry, no, they are not. That was my stream of consciousness taking control again.

The guys on Homicide say "Sex is like pizza. Even when it's bad, it's good." I don't know, ND. Maybe you just moved your praising to another venue. (looks for lightning bolts)

I agree with this:

Marriage, monogamy, and declarations of love and eternal fidelity are all optional; none of them definitely make sex better in any moral or satisfaction-rating sense.

But not with this:

Sex-positive, to me, means that (provided everyone is a consenting adult) sex is good. Period, end of sentence.

Because not all sex *is* good, even among consenting adults. I don't just mean physical satisfaction, either. For example, I'd be hard-pressed to call sexual infidelity good. Or sex that transmits a disease. Or sex that changes a relationship for the worse, instead of for the better.

hmmm...but sex doesn't just *lead* to pain. It can be bad in and of itself (i.e. rape, incest, STDs, etc.) if used wrongly, but I think love is only good.