Angel: I appreciate you guys looking out for Connor all summer. It's just—he's confused. He needs time. That's all. Fred: Right. Time, and some corporal punishment with a large heavy mallet. Not that I'm bitter.

'Just Rewards (2)'


Firefly 4: Also, we can kill you with our brains  

Discussion of the Mutant Enemy series, Firefly, the ensuing movie Serenity, and other projects in that universe. Like the other show threads, anything broadcast in the US is fine; spoilers are verboten and will be deleted if found.


Zenkitty - Aug 27, 2005 11:54:59 am PDT #4529 of 10001
Every now and then, I think I might actually be a little odd.

Thanks, all. shucks Chills, even; cool.

Mr. Broom, no adversarial intent meant or assumed! I've been trying lately not to preface every sentence I write with "I think..." so perhaps I went overboard in the other direction, but of course my opinion is just conjecture. Unless the writer/creator tells us specifically what was meant (maybe even then), speculation is all we got, and one of the things I enjoy about this show is that so many things are ambiguous and open to different interpretations. Maybe River didn't know Mal was coming for them. Maybe she was thinking about home and Daddy, and that was all. My opinion is based on all the other evidence that we've gotten throughout the show that she is indeed psychic, and the way we've seen her express herself. (There's also the fact that I want her to have meant Mal.)

As for the Hodgeberry Love, I never saw anything incestuous between the two of them, in that scene or elsewhere, and still don't. The idea doesn't bother me, though, because there's no overt incestousness going on (which would be eww); just the hint of it is funny, like in the deleted scene from OMR and Simon's utterly shocked reaction there. I think the hodgeberry scene looked sexual mainly because River was feeding berries to Simon, and we as adults, seeing two adults doing that, associate that with sex. But River is very childlike in many ways, and that's something I've seen little little kids do with someone they love. They just associate it with caring and closeness, because sex hasn't even occurred to them yet. That's all I think that was.


Kiba Rika - Aug 27, 2005 11:57:23 am PDT #4530 of 10001
I may have to seize the cat.

Ooh, the authorial intent debate. My feeling tends to be that a text has to stand on its own merits - meaning that we can all interpret "Daddy" as whomever we like. Hey, if you can find support she meant Jayne, I'll buy it.


Zenkitty - Aug 27, 2005 12:04:33 pm PDT #4531 of 10001
Every now and then, I think I might actually be a little odd.

backs away from the authorial intent debate That way lies madness. Especially in a body of work like a tv show with multiple authors, some of whom may have had ideas that contradicted other writers' ideas.

"Just because you wrote it, how do you know that's what it meant?" One of my favorite quotes of all time, and I don't even know who said it.


Polter-Cow - Aug 27, 2005 12:07:53 pm PDT #4532 of 10001
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

"Just because you wrote it, how do you know that's what it meant?" One of my favorite quotes of all time, and I don't even know who said it.

Or what they meant.


Matt the Bruins fan - Aug 27, 2005 3:22:14 pm PDT #4533 of 10001
"I remember when they eventually introduced that drug kingpin who murdered people and smuggled drugs inside snakes and I was like 'Finally. A normal person.'” —RahvinDragand

The hodgeberry scene never struck me as incestuous either, but that's probably due to Maher never convincing me for a single instant that he or any of the characters he's ever portrayed were heterosexual.


Zenkitty - Aug 27, 2005 4:12:14 pm PDT #4534 of 10001
Every now and then, I think I might actually be a little odd.

I've never seen Sean Maher in anything else, but Simon seems very... either asexual or sexually repressed, not sure which. He doesn't so much ping my gaydar, but my gaydar is famously broken. He's beautiful, but not so much sexy. (To me.)


§ ita § - Aug 27, 2005 4:12:50 pm PDT #4535 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

He seems straight but kinda dumb and terrified with Kaylee, not gay, to me.


Jars - Aug 27, 2005 4:15:19 pm PDT #4536 of 10001

Oh, I'm definitely getting a hint of queerness off Simon. Whether it's Simon or Sean Maher though, I don't know. I've never seen him in anything other than Firefly.


Kiba Rika - Aug 27, 2005 4:20:27 pm PDT #4537 of 10001
I may have to seize the cat.

I think I've gotta roll with the repressed angle on that one.


sumi - Aug 27, 2005 6:56:51 pm PDT #4538 of 10001
Art Crawl!!!

Going back to what Zenkitty said: having the episode end with that nice familial dinner scene just underscores the whole family thing.

Did anyone watch Sean Maher in The Dive from Clausen's Pier?