I don't feel particularly mama-bearish about it, Tamara. My head has always been a little achy about the Joss Is God contingency.

I hugely appreciate Joss. Without him, no Buffy. Without Buffy, well, my life would have been very different, I suppose. Maybe I'd be in Boston and married to some schlepperhead and have some vague wish in my head that I'd have traveled someplace else and took a stab at being a writer.

So I'm grateful for the man's vision and all.

I just think Firefly would have been very different, or maybe not even possible without Tim. It seemed to me that their relationship was very symbiotic from the start. I remember when they were filming The Message, Tim was on set directing and holding down the fort while Joss was in the hospital with his wife and newborn son.

I imagine it was a hectic, weird, heartbreaking time, all wrapped up in the intense joy of holding his first born baby.

But I digress. Selfishly, very selfishly, I'm glad that Tim doesn't have a whole lot of that sycophantic Tim Is God sort of baggage. I'm selfishly glad he had nothing to do with the flick, because, you know, Wonderfalls and The Inside.

I'm sort of hoping (selfishly, horrifically selfishly) he has nothing to do with any sort of sequel because I like Tim's solo spicy brain so very much that I'm looking forward to wrapping myself up in his visions that way.

And sure, Firefly was, I think, stuffed to bursting with Tim's vision as much as Joss', but selfishly (sickeningly selfishly), since I'm all Firefly'd out, it feels like a thing that is moving backwards, and I wasnt to see the shiny new sparkly Tim stuff, and Serenity Part Deux feels like spinning wheels, to me.

See how incredibly selfish I am? Isn't it INFURIATING?

Anywho, I stand by my original statement. When i scroll through various boards, it appears as though when it comes to Firefly, not only did Joss orchestrate everything, but also wrote and directed every episode, held the boom, edited it all, and did all the stunts while teaching Summer how to dance. he may also have styled Morena's hair, but only when it looked really really good.

And Tim may have occassionally given Joss a footrub between takes. But only under Joss' careful instruction, and even then, it would have been better if Joss did it himself.

This isn't Joss' fault, fans seem to have this odd sycophantic tunnel vision, and have as long as I've been involved in fandom. If something is written well, it's all Joss. If it's poor, it's Some Other Writer's Fault.

And I'm not quite sure how all of that started, or even what my original point was.

Oh. Yeah. I think Tim has disappeared from Firefly's story.

Allyson, I think your feelings are valid. I also think you are biased and I don't think you would disagree.

Many many fans of Firefly and Serenity don't understand the role that Tim played. I agree completely. This being said, some of us are very well aware.

The two favorite episodes of almost everyone polled are OIS and Out of Gas. Most true fans know that Out of Gas was Tim's baby.

Tim has been very busy with other projects in the last year while all of Joss' efforts have been on Serenity. Is it truly surprising that Tim has slipped from the minds of the ever so fickle fanbase?

I think this is much more a case of "out of sight, out of mind" than any type of true forgetfulness.

BTW, a new member just joined the OB with the nickname "minearlver". I don't think he is as forgotten as you think he is.

We watched the pilot of Dead Like Me last night. OMG am I glad that Rebacca Gayheart was not Inara!

We watched the pilot of Dead Like Me last night. OMG am I glad that Rebacca Gayheart was not Inara!

Heh. And....well. You'll see.

And....well. You'll see

Hrm.

Another comment about Dead Like Me (and off-topic for Firefly ): It was really bugging me who Callum Blue reminded me of. I kept saying "He looks like someone, especially around the eyes." My DH got there first and said "The person he looks like is dead, which is sad." Which was all I needed to realize he was reminding me of Glenn Quinn.

I really liked the pilot. Another quality show struck down too soon. It's a good reminder for me, though, that when I wish Tim would take his shows to cable to avoid the stringent S&P rules, that cable network execs don't necessarily have good taste either.

I plan to be a total knob and get Joss on camera at Edinburgh, and ask him about Tim working on any possible sequel. Oh yes. Unless that is actually a knobbish thing to do (Allyson?!) in which case I won't.

I miss Tim's work already.

If something is written well, it's all Joss. If it's poor, it's Some Other Writer's Fault.

I hate that people see things this way. I've actually yelled at my own friends for blaming things on Marti. You will see me at the front of the "Joss is cool" line, but I have long since given up the "Joss is God" stuff. It actually makes me uncomfortable, now, when people say things like, "Oh My Joss."

I can't believe you said that. Oh My Jo...

Yes, I see what you mean.

Some of the joss fanclub makes me uncomfortable - I actually get emails asking where he'll be whilst in the UK in exchange for kisses and things. I'm not kidding. Uhm. Since people don't know me they haven't realised yet I'm not the kind of person to swap dick sucking for the ability to jump out of brushes and such.

It could be worse, though - it could be JM's fan club. I best go into hiding after hitting 'Post message' on this.

ETA: I should clarify this and say I'm not talking about everybody here at all in any respects. It's great to admire and respect somebodies work, and even to squee a bit when you meet them.

I guess with all artists there are a few die-hards who insist that they are incapable of committing any wrong. I remember one time posting at a JM fan board that I thought his performance in something (Andromeda?) was not as good as I'd hoped, and I nearly got lynched. Of course, I should've known better than to offer up critique in that venue. Oops.

But have you noticed? Here at Buffistas, we can say we don't like things (see: all the people critiquing The Inside in the Minearverse thread) without people questioning our loyalty.

without people questioning our loyalty.

No, but we do put your name on a little list we keep...