Black -vs white comes down to "race", for me. That may be a personal problem.
Set all of that aside.
Jack is not a good guy. He is expediant, at best.
You guys had a riot? On account of me? A real riot?
Jayne ,'Jaynestown'
Spoilers 3: First Mutant Enemy, Now the World
[NAFDA] Spoilers for any and all currently running TV shows. All hardcore spoilage, all the time. No white font.
Gus - May 21, 2005 3:09:37 pm PDT #977 of 3486
Bag the crypto. Say what is on your mind.
§ ita § - May 21, 2005 3:24:29 pm PDT #978 of 3486
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Black -vs white comes down to "race", for me. That may be a personal problem.
It is a problem when you start applying race to other people's positions when they're not discussing it.
How do you define hero or good guy? Do you believe, in life and death conflicts that they exist in real life? If not (or, hell, even if you do) do you look to fiction for that purity, or do you not enjoy fiction less if it presents you a not-good guy as the protagonist (if Jack's not a good guy, what term do you use to distinguish him from both the good and bad guys?)
Who else isn't a good guy? Is Mal a good guy? Jack Bristow?
Steph L. - May 21, 2005 3:27:55 pm PDT #979 of 3486
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe
Forget "We Are The World" -- Michael is the whole world all unto himself.
Heh. I meant his charming little ditty "Black and White."
§ ita § - May 21, 2005 3:29:36 pm PDT #980 of 3486
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
I know -- I was just riffing from there.
Steph L. - May 21, 2005 3:32:07 pm PDT #981 of 3486
Unusually and exceedingly peculiar and altogether quite impossible to describe
'K. Just checking. I can live with my quips being unfunny to anyone but me, but I do hate it when, funny or not, the references are obscure.
Gus - May 21, 2005 3:34:57 pm PDT #982 of 3486
Bag the crypto. Say what is on your mind.
How do you define hero or good guy?
A hero is someone whose actions I should emulate. A bad guy is someone I should appose.
I should emulate Mal. He loves. I should not emulate Malwan. He does not love.
Mr. Bristow loves. This also pisses him off.
Jack of 24 does not love. He calculates.
Gus - May 21, 2005 3:36:23 pm PDT #983 of 3486
Bag the crypto. Say what is on your mind.
stoopid double posts
§ ita § - May 21, 2005 3:41:15 pm PDT #984 of 3486
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.
Don't worry, Steph. No insect reflections here.
Jack of 24 loves, both big and small. He loves the big (the lives of the many) more than he loves individuals, and loves other people more than he loves himself.
Mr. Bristow loves. He loves one thing, with every fibre of his being. He wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice others, for that one thing's continued wellbeing. He wouldn't hesitate to sacrifice himself either.
Bauer saves the world because he cares about it. I swear, Bristow saves the world because it's his day job. And if his daughter didn't do it and/or didn't like it, he'd stop. Bauer would not. He might try, but it wouldn't take.
Is Jack of Lost a hero?
Jessica - May 21, 2005 3:51:33 pm PDT #985 of 3486
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset
Ooh, battle of the Jacks!
(This is the part where the Alias/24 crossover in my head starts playing, which mostly consists of Jacks Bauer and Bristow speaking very slowly and quietly to each other, never breaking eye contact.)
Gus - May 21, 2005 3:54:04 pm PDT #986 of 3486
Bag the crypto. Say what is on your mind.
Too damn many Jacks.
Jack Bauer does not give a fuck about the world, or the people in it. He cares about winning.
Jack Bristow gives a fuck about his daughter.
Jack of "Lost" tries to give a fuck, but he is not sure who should receive it.