It's a testament to how sympathetic Sawyer has become (and how smug Jack has become) that I didn't mind seeing Sawyer hurt Jack this way. More so than Kate and Charlie, Sawyer has emerged as Lost's most moving and essential redemption story.

See, and I didn't find Sawyer sympathetic, and I don't see where he's been redeemed in any way. I feel like I know more of his story now, but I don't see the redemption part of it. A little help? [ETA: I understand his desire for revenge, and I feel sorry for his childhood trauma, for sure. But I don't see the redemption angle. I just understand better why he is the way he is, but that doesn't redeem him.]

Actually, I think I felt sorrier for him after his previous "all about me" ep.

Not arguing with the smug Jack assessment, though. I was kind of, "Yeah, screw you," when he pulled his, "I asked you for the gun two days ago." Whatever, dude.

But I don't see the redemption angle. I just understand better why he is the way he is, but that doesn't redeem him.

Right. I mean, it's more understandable now why he is the way he is, but I think in order to count as redeemed, you have to stop being an asshole all the time, which he hasn't.

you have to stop being an asshole all the time

But he has -- he's being annoying, but he's not being dangerous, and is willing to act in the best interests of the community.

Maybe it's just where I started from. At the beginning, Sawyer looked like a bad boy and a threat, a wild card who couldn't be trusted.

Now he has a past as a tortured victim, and when push comes to shove, he's just in a pissing match with Jack. Since the torture, he hasn't been a liability.

He's not an antagonist, he's not even an anti-hero.

when push comes to shove, he's just in a pissing match with Jack. Since the torture, he hasn't been a liability.

Yeah, but he hasn't had a real conflict of interest with the rest of the passengers since the illusory inhaler incident. I'm not sure what could happen that would allow him the opportunity to be a real threat, now, but I'm not sure the potential is gone.

He's not an antagonist, he's not even an anti-hero.

Well, he killed a guy in Sydney just to watch him die. That has to count for something.

At the beginning, Sawyer looked like a bad boy and a threat, a wild card who couldn't be trusted.

I guess I see him as more lazy than softened. It's more work to constantly be a threat than it is to just be a jackass, especially in a situation where he really can't gain anything. (And his backstory hasn't shown him to be the kind of long-range planner that would want to manipulate the other survivors into making him King of the Island -- he's just not that kind of thinker.)

Liked his work during the "I Never" game, too. Playful, snagged, darkly bitter. He was workin' it this ep.

oooh!! me too. especially when Kate called him on his "baggage". that glare and slight eye roll was superb! i loved the directing in this ep. the close-ups from the "I Never" seen especially!

See, and I didn't find Sawyer sympathetic, and I don't see where he's been redeemed in any way.

Nope. It's awfully tough to redeem a murderer. At least for me.

(or what Betsy said...)

he killed a guy in Sydney just to watch him die

Except, he didn't.

I'm not talking about effect, here. I'm talking about authorial intent. And I really feell that they're sanding everyone down.

I think the writers have no guts in general. I was completely surprised when Sawyer's murder didn't turn out to be a dream sequence. By now, I've come to expect every evil or even naughty deed to be unrolled by the end of the episode.