Mal: Does she understand that? River: She understands. She doesn't comprehend.

'Objects In Space'


The Buffista Book Club: the Harry Potter iteration  

This thread is a focused discussion group. Please see the first post below for the current topic and upcoming book discussions. While natter will inevitably happen, we encourage you to treat this like a virtual book club and try to keep your posts in that spirit.

By consensus, this thread is reopened specifically to discuss Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. It will be closed again once that discussion has run its course.

***SPOILER ALERT***

  • **Spoilers for Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows lie here. Read at your own risk***


Wolfram - Sep 14, 2004 4:37:54 am PDT #586 of 3301
Visilurking

Cindy, Rosh Hashana (new year) starts Wednesday night and ends Friday night. Then Yom Kippur starts the following Friday night so there's a week in between. The days from Rosh Hashana through Yom Kippur are known as the Aseret Y'mai H'Tshuva (Ten Days of Repentance.) However, there are no holiday restrictions on any of the intermediate days. So in short, I'm only offline this Thursday and Friday (and as usual on Saturdays.)

His childhood was so isolated. Where were other children? Cousins? Anybody besides his parents and the housekeeper? Even at the cottages there were no friends...

I got the impression that several factors contributed to his status as a loner. First of all, he had a very prestigious pedigree:

So little Asher Lev-born in 1943 to Rivkeh and Aryeh Lev, in the section of Brooklyn known as Crown Heights-little Asher Lev was the juncture point of two significant family lines, the apex, as it were, of a triangle seminal with Jewish potentiality and freighted with Jewish responsibility. But he was also born with a gift.

His grandfather and father were also world-reknowned for their service to the Rebbe(s) and the Ladover community, and this probably set him apart from many of the other children. When adults treat a child differently because of who he is, it tends to rub off on the other children too.

Secondly, his home life contributed as well. His father traveled a great deal which probably made his son somewhat of an oddity among the other children. And when his mother became strangely ill he became an object of pity in the community which tends to have a chilling effect on making friends.

Thirdly, his interests and his talent was also a barrier to his peers. Children just don't tend to make friends with that weird kid who paints all the time. And he didn't seem to share their interests (whatever those were) so he ends up being a loner.

Fourthly, the book is written from his perspective, so despite what efforts the other children or their parents may or may not have made to be inclusive, to him those efforts went completely unnoticed.


Connie Neil - Sep 14, 2004 5:05:01 am PDT #587 of 3301
brillig

When adults treat a child differently because of who he is, it tends to rub off on the other children too

I'm evil. I immediately thought, "Hm, Harry Potter."


Wolfram - Sep 14, 2004 5:51:25 am PDT #588 of 3301
Visilurking

I guess that would make mythic ancestor, He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named.


erikaj - Sep 14, 2004 6:21:34 am PDT #589 of 3301
Always Anti-fascist!

Ha. I was sort of like that as a child...kind of intense and Too Much for the neighborhood kids.


brenda m - Sep 14, 2004 6:50:41 am PDT #590 of 3301
If you're going through hell/keep on going/don't slow down/keep your fear from showing/you might be gone/'fore the devil even knows you're there

Gah. Once again I've let myself get behind right as the discussion starts. I'm hoping to finish up tonight before the Asher talk is done. I've skimmed a bit of the discussion but I don't want to get too deeply into it before I finish reading.

Suddenly realizing it's been nearly two months since I had a weekend at home. Sigh.


Daisy Jane - Sep 14, 2004 7:22:30 am PDT #591 of 3301
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

For all of Asher's selfishness, what about his father's? All travel all the time, moving the family, the possible danger. Why is his calling/method better than Asher's?


sumi - Sep 14, 2004 7:31:36 am PDT #592 of 3301
Art Crawl!!!

Exactly!

Also -- all three family members have this monomania -- it's just that Asher's conflicts with his parents'.


Wolfram - Sep 14, 2004 7:31:59 am PDT #593 of 3301
Visilurking

For all of Asher's selfishness, what about his father's? All travel all the time, moving the family, the possible danger. Why is his calling/method better than Asher's?

Well for one thing Asher's father was out saving lives. And he was apparently very good at what he did. And for another, his dad had the support and approval of his wife, the Rebbe, and the community. In fact, the only one who disapproved was Asher. That's in sharp contrast to Asher's goals that were discouraged and eventually tolerated but never really approved of by anyone in his family or community.


Daisy Jane - Sep 14, 2004 7:49:30 am PDT #594 of 3301
"This bar smells like kerosene and stripper tears."

So what makes Aryeh's better is that it's community approved- saving lives is an inherent good, making the world a better place, but really good art makes the world a better place too- but it is at the detriment to his family. Rivkeh was constantly worried about him, what if something had happened? After the death of her brother, she mightn't been able to deal. But, he was miserable staying home, and so he left.


Wolfram - Sep 14, 2004 8:12:16 am PDT #595 of 3301
Visilurking

I don't think either acted inherently selflessly or selfishly. I think Aryeh cared more about what he was doing for other people and how it affected their lives, although he certainly enjoyed completing his tasks and traveling. I think Asher cared more about expressing ultimate truth as an artist regardless of its effect on anyone or anything. This isn't to say that saving lives is nobler than great art, or that Aryeh is a better person than Asher. But on a spectrum of selfish and selfless I think Aryeh's goals were closer to the selfless and Asher's closer to the selfish.