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The Buffista Book Club: the Harry Potter iteration  

This thread is a focused discussion group. Please see the first post below for the current topic and upcoming book discussions. While natter will inevitably happen, we encourage you to treat this like a virtual book club and try to keep your posts in that spirit.

By consensus, this thread is reopened specifically to discuss Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. It will be closed again once that discussion has run its course.

***SPOILER ALERT***

  • **Spoilers for Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows lie here. Read at your own risk***


Typo Boy - Oct 23, 2007 7:15:41 pm PDT #3242 of 3301
Calli: My people have a saying. A man who trusts can never be betrayed, only mistaken.Avon: Life expectancy among your people must be extremely short.

Right. I'm not saying that the universe of the book is badly constructed. Plot, and a certain kind of world building are Rowlings skills. (I actually have never found her world building convincing when I think about it. But her worlds feel real. ) But fictional intelligent species don't have to differ from one another in the ways she has them. And it makes it very easy to read as analogies for racial and cultural stereotypes. Now I don't think an author of fiction is obliged to teach didactic lessons; or even neccesarily avoid teaching the wrong ones. But I think it puts the gay Dumbledore thing in context. If she intended the series to put forth a pro-diversity message to her readers (and I have no reason to think she did) she failed miserably.


Hil R. - Oct 23, 2007 7:20:24 pm PDT #3243 of 3301
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

The Wizard world has stereotypes, they're just different stereotypes than the real-world ones. (Well, sometimes. No one seems to care at all about race, but the Irish and French and Bulgarian wizards that we saw were all fairly stereotypically Irish and French and Eastern European.)


§ ita § - Oct 23, 2007 7:25:45 pm PDT #3244 of 3301
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Yeah, I don't think of it as a lesson in tolerance that didn't go far enough. Because I don't think of it as a lesson in tolerance.

I actually have never found her world building convincing when I think about it. But her worlds feel real.

How do you do that math? I mean, if it feels real, how is it not convincing?


Hil R. - Oct 23, 2007 7:30:32 pm PDT #3245 of 3301
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

I didn't really read it that way. I saw the Mudblood/Pureblood/Blood Traitor thing as clearly analogous to racial and ethnic issues, but not the different species. Because they are, well, different species. (I think the only part-wizard part-other we ever met was Fleur, and her family. And veelas in mythology were originally human anyway.) (Oh. Just remembered Hagrid and Madam Olympique. Hmm.)

And it also depends on how you're defining "intelligent species," I think. Just the ability to talk?


Trudy Booth - Oct 23, 2007 7:33:17 pm PDT #3246 of 3301
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

And it also depends on how you're defining "intelligent species," I think. Just the ability to talk?

At some point they actually list them, don't they? Umbridge maybe? The "non human magical creatures" act? They're not subject to certain rules or whatever?


Vortex - Oct 23, 2007 7:34:55 pm PDT #3247 of 3301
"Cry havoc and let slip the boobs of war!" -- Miracleman

And it also depends on how you're defining "intelligent species," I think. Just the ability to talk?

I would think that it should be the ability to communicate and work together for a common goal.


Hil R. - Oct 23, 2007 7:39:33 pm PDT #3248 of 3301
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

I would think that it should be the ability to communicate and work together for a common goal.

Hmm. By that definition, though, I think the gargoyles would qualify.


Hil R. - Oct 23, 2007 7:45:09 pm PDT #3249 of 3301
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

Looks like the Ministry divides the magical creatures into Beasts, Beings, and Spirits. Specifically mentioned as Beasts are centuars, hippogriffs, dragons, and werewolves. Specifically mentioned as beings are house elves, goblines, and werewolves. (At the Ministry, the Werewolf Registry and the Werewolf Capture Unit are in the Beast division, but the Werewolf Support Services are in the Being division.)


billytea - Oct 23, 2007 8:04:04 pm PDT #3250 of 3301
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

Hmm. By that definition, though, I think the gargoyles would qualify.

By that definition, mole rats qualify.


-t - Oct 23, 2007 8:32:28 pm PDT #3251 of 3301
I am a woman of various inclinations and only some of the time are they to burn everything down in frustration

humans get to be generalists; bad or good is to be determined, but for other species it's in the genes.

Hm, and I was thinking that all the magical species having specific flaws (which in at least the cases I can think of off the top of my head some individuals manage to transcend) implied that humanity also has a specific flaw we just can't see it, since we all pretty much have it.