Reavers ain't men. Or they forgot how to be. Now they're just nothing. They got out to the edge of the galaxy, to that place of nothing, and that's what they became.

Mal ,'Bushwhacked'


The Buffista Book Club: the Harry Potter iteration  

This thread is a focused discussion group. Please see the first post below for the current topic and upcoming book discussions. While natter will inevitably happen, we encourage you to treat this like a virtual book club and try to keep your posts in that spirit.

By consensus, this thread is reopened specifically to discuss Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. It will be closed again once that discussion has run its course.

***SPOILER ALERT***

  • **Spoilers for Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows lie here. Read at your own risk***


Kate P. - Oct 21, 2007 5:49:55 am PDT #3094 of 3301
That's the pain / That cuts a straight line down through the heart / We call it love

I don't necessarily think she loses points for writing in a heteronormative universe, but I also don't thinks she earns any retroactively for telling us Dumbledore was totally gay all along.

Ah, well, that's probably the saner point of view. *g* Part of my reaction is a response to all of the people I've seen (not just here) saying "yay, he was gay all along, rock on!" and I'm thinking "...you know, that doesn't actually win her any credit in my mind." Her comment that she would have told us sooner if she'd known the response would be so positive also bugs me, because I take that to mean that she was worried about a backlash if she outed him in the books. Maybe I'm misinterpreting, but it sure sounds kind of cowardly to me.

I guess I don't judge her for not running fast in a race I'm not sure she joined.

See, I think I was happier when I didn't think she'd joined the race at all. But now it sounds to me like she thinks she did join the race, and so I judge her for not doing a better job of it.

For the first six books it had nothing to do with the story. In the last one, I'd say that Dumbledore's sexuality was as relevant as Snape's.

Yes, I agree with this. The Dumbledore/Grindelwald backstory ended up being an important part of the plot, what with Dumbledore's appearance and major info-dump in Kings Cross station, and I think it would have made sense at that point for Dumbledore to tell Harry that he was in love with Grindelwald and it blinded him to what G. was capable of. I just don't think she would have hesitated to mention Dumbledore's unrequited love in that situation, if it had been love for a woman.


Kat - Oct 21, 2007 6:21:25 am PDT #3095 of 3301
"I keep to a strict diet of ill-advised enthusiasm and heartfelt regret." Leigh Bardugo

From the link Sue posted above, I think this is interesting...

The last question of the night referred to Snape’s portrait and Harry and she answered that Harry would have insisted that it be hung in the headmaster’s office at Hogwarts but that he probably would not have visited it to converse with Snape. Jo is still surprised when she reads that fans are torn about Snape, who is complicated character, and unequivocally stated that Snape was "bitter, vindictive and mean."

I wonder what aspect of "torn" surprises her? Is she saying she is surprised that they might admire or pity him? Or is she saying she is surprised that people find him a somewhat reprehensible guy?


DCJensen - Oct 21, 2007 7:02:03 am PDT #3096 of 3301
All is well that ends in pizza.

I think the not mentioning that Dumbledore was gay within the books was useful to keep it from becoming an issue in the press when the book was released.

Far too many of the wackaloon brigade equate gayness with pedophilia, that there would be no reason to add more fuel to their already strident "witchcraft!" and "anti Christian!" cries with every new book.

As a statement it would have been good, but the anti-Potter brigade was fairly marginalized during the last couple of book releases. I saw a few eye-roll worthy articles, but they had nothing new to scream about.


Trudy Booth - Oct 21, 2007 7:15:28 am PDT #3097 of 3301
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

For the first six books it had nothing to do with the story. In the last one, I'd say that Dumbledore's sexuality was as relevant as Snape's.

Hmm...

I think the big fucking firestorm if she had included it in the book would have made Dumbledore's broken heart way MORE important than Snapes. And it really shouldn't be.

The way she did it, its a penny-drop thing.. "oh, that makes sense. he's gay" and treated like the minor fact that it is.


§ ita § - Oct 21, 2007 7:35:25 am PDT #3098 of 3301
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I don't think that Dumbledore's sexuality was quite as relevant as Snape's. Snape and Lily make much less sense if there's no there there. Dumbledore and Grindlewald's story is plausible platonically.


megan walker - Oct 21, 2007 1:43:45 pm PDT #3099 of 3301
"What kind of magical sunshine and lollipop world do you live in? Because you need to be medicated."-SFist

Dumbledore and Grindlewald's story is plausible platonically.

I'd say so, since it never crossed my mind that it was anything else.


Aims - Oct 21, 2007 6:50:21 pm PDT #3100 of 3301
Shit's all sorts of different now.

Clearly you aren't reading enough fanfiction.

Or watching Smallville. *g*


megan walker - Oct 21, 2007 7:12:59 pm PDT #3101 of 3301
"What kind of magical sunshine and lollipop world do you live in? Because you need to be medicated."-SFist

I'm forever doomed to be the most pro-gay, non-HoYay person I know.


Glamcookie - Oct 22, 2007 12:56:50 am PDT #3102 of 3301
I know my own heart and understand my fellow man. But I am made unlike anyone I have ever met. I dare to say I am like no one in the whole world. - Anne Lister

Kate, GF and I were irritated by the late reveal as well. Still love the books, but I agree that it's kind of like trying to get some sort of "gay points" when there wasn't any actual gayness presented in the story.


Aims - Oct 22, 2007 3:15:05 am PDT #3103 of 3301
Shit's all sorts of different now.

I get all sides of the argument and agree with a lot of them, but I wonder if she was *trying* to get "gay points" or credit for fighting that fight or if she was just revealing one character's sexuality.