Mal: Gotta say, doctor, your talent for alienatin' folk is near miraculous. Simon: Yes, I'm very proud.

'Safe'


The Buffista Book Club: the Harry Potter iteration  

This thread is a focused discussion group. Please see the first post below for the current topic and upcoming book discussions. While natter will inevitably happen, we encourage you to treat this like a virtual book club and try to keep your posts in that spirit.

By consensus, this thread is reopened specifically to discuss Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. It will be closed again once that discussion has run its course.

***SPOILER ALERT***

  • **Spoilers for Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows lie here. Read at your own risk***


Kate P. - Oct 20, 2007 1:43:17 pm PDT #3084 of 3301
That's the pain / That cuts a straight line down through the heart / We call it love

Well, I disagree to a certain extent about her responsibility. Children's and YA authors in general tend to write with a somewhat didactic purpose, which often takes the form of introducing characters who have certain characteristics or are in certain situations. Of course that's not always the case, and plenty of children's & YA books don't purport to teach any kind of lesson at all; but didacticism is still common to both genres.

So when JKR says that she considers her books to be advancing an argument for tolerance, I have to figure that that's partly her purpose in writing them. Of course her purpose, first and foremost, is to tell a good story. But in telling that story, she created a world that addressed differences among people (and magical creatures), and took some care to populate that world with diverse characters from a variety of backgrounds. And yet, in all those hundreds of characters she created, not a single one of them, on the page, was anything other than Totally Het. So to find out that all along she considered a major character to be gay, yet she never acknowledged that fact in the books -- when it would even have made sense plotwise to do so! -- yeah, I take issue at that.


§ ita § - Oct 20, 2007 2:15:17 pm PDT #3085 of 3301
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

I think her books were huge on tolerance. I just don't dock her points for not hitting every sort of tolerance out there. She didn't address weight either (and you might argue she was negative about it--way worse in my book than not addressing sexuality).

I guess I don't judge her for not running fast in a race I'm not sure she joined.


Scrappy - Oct 20, 2007 2:24:28 pm PDT #3086 of 3301
Life moves pretty fast. You don't stop and look around once in a while, you could miss it.

I'm with ita. Aside from the Weasleys, there weren't ANY sexual relationships until book 7 or so. And none of the teachers seem to have any private life, at least not one we know about. If Dumbledore had been the sole professor whose romantic life we don't see, it would bother me.


Vortex - Oct 20, 2007 3:30:07 pm PDT #3087 of 3301
"Cry havoc and let slip the boobs of war!" -- Miracleman

And yet, in all those hundreds of characters she created, not a single one of them, on the page, was anything other than Totally Het.

I think that this is an overstatement. She didn't discuss the sexuality of any of the characters unless it was directly relevant to the plot. We know that Tonks and Lupin are hetero because they had a relationship that was relevant to the plot. We have no idea if McGonagall or Sprout or Flitwick were gay, because their sexuality/relationships weren't relevant.


Jessica - Oct 20, 2007 3:44:12 pm PDT #3088 of 3301
If I want to become a cloud of bats, does each bat need a separate vaccination?

We have no idea if McGonagall or Sprout or Flitwick were gay, because their sexuality/relationships weren't relevant.

Eh, permission to assume all the single characters are gay (since all the romantic relationships on the page are het) doesn't count for much as far as I'm concerned.

I don't necessarily think she loses points for writing in a heteronormative universe, but I also don't thinks she earns any retroactively for telling us Dumbledore was totally gay all along.


Vortex - Oct 20, 2007 3:45:59 pm PDT #3089 of 3301
"Cry havoc and let slip the boobs of war!" -- Miracleman

I don't necessarily think she loses points for writing in a heteronormative universe, but I also don't thinks she earns any retroactively for telling us Dumbledore was totally gay all along.

yes, this.


beth b - Oct 20, 2007 4:51:35 pm PDT #3090 of 3301
oh joy! Oh Rapture ! I have a brain!

I spent a bit of time on the SFGate page reading the comments about the story - sorry nothing very smart there.

I am confused by the fuss. One of the things JKR has shared is that part of her writing process has been to create very full lives for all her characters - much of which never made in on the page.

I personally thought that the relationship between Dumbledore and Wizard G was as intense as lily and snape. I hadn't really though gay , but there is a time when relationships get really intense - with or with out sex. I just accepted it.


Polter-Cow - Oct 20, 2007 10:41:02 pm PDT #3091 of 3301
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

'Harry Potter' Author J.K. Rowling Opens Up About Books' Christian Imagery.


Trudy Booth - Oct 20, 2007 11:22:53 pm PDT #3092 of 3301
Greece's financial crisis threatens to take down all of Western civilization - a civilization they themselves founded. A rather tragic irony - which is something they also invented. - Jon Stewart

She never said so in the book because it had nothing to do with the story. Dumbledore's sexuality was irrlevent. Which is sort of awesome.


Hil R. - Oct 21, 2007 3:37:31 am PDT #3093 of 3301
Sometimes I think I might just move up to Vermont, open a bookstore or a vegan restaurant. Adam Schlesinger, z''l

For the first six books it had nothing to do with the story. In the last one, I'd say that Dumbledore's sexuality was as relevant as Snape's.