Showgirls

I'd add Starship Troopers in there, but it's arguably ironic. (At least in Verhoven's head.)

To be a truly GOod Bad Movie, it has to be utterly shameless. No irony, no sense that "We know better than to do this." Bad Movies glory in their decisions.

So, among other things, it can't be deliberately campy, you're saying? That leaves out huge chunks of definitively classic cult movies (Rocky Horror being example numero uno).

Hm. So, where does Big Trouble in Little China fall? I mean, it glories in its decisions, and is shameless, and is fun, but a heaving pile of enthusiastic nonsense.

Oh yeah, I haven't seen that in one in years. I should watch it again to see that guy explode.

many movies are made these days to exploit that "wow, this is such a bad movie and I'm having so much fun" market.

Yeah, but those kinds of movies aren't really as much fun as they set out to be. I don't enjoy them nearly as much as a movie that obviously takes itself seriously, and yet is accidentally crass in many respects. One without that tongue-in-cheek, ironic, "aren't we too cool" attitude, winking at the audience, self-referential and smug.

While I can enjoy that kind of audience-winking, too, it can't beat sincerity for enjoyment of the form. "So bad it's good" shouldn't be on purpose, it spoils the fun.

To be a truly GOod Bad Movie, it has to be utterly shameless. No irony, no sense that "We know better than to do this." Bad Movies glory in their decisions.

The Apple does this in spades, but because it is the Greatest Movie Of All Time, it needs no defending.

I just realized that DUNE and POPEYE are similar in that they are unmistakebly the work of idiosyncratic directors who are probably trying to tackle a genre/subject/whatev that's dead wrong for them.

The funny thing is that I do think Dune captures a LOT of the tone of the book, and in doing so illustrates perfectly why Dune should never have been adapted for the screen.

Hm. So, where does Big Trouble in Little China fall? I mean, it glories in its decisions, and is shameless, and is fun, but a heaving pile of enthusiastic nonsense.

And very knowing nonsense on top of that. But I'm not sure I'd even call it bad - wouldn't it be like calling BUCKAROO BANZAI a bad movie?

Ooh, has anyone else seen Oblivion? Now THAT'S a fantastic bad movie. Evil space aliens and bad bingo puns.

The funny thing is that I do think Dune captures a LOT of the tone of the book, and in doing so illustrates perfectly why Dune should never have been adapted for the screen.

The biggest problem I had with DUNE, but also one of the reasons I enjoyed it so much, was that it was painfully obvious that Lynch wanted to spend all his time with the Harkonnens, and it threw the whole balance of the movie off.

While I can enjoy that kind of audience-winking, too, it can't beat sincerity for enjoyment of the form. "So bad it's good" shouldn't be on purpose, it spoils the fun.

I don't know. I find that unintentional badness is often less entertaining than its reputation leads me to expect. I saw The Evil Dead with a bunch of friends, and although I laughed, I laughed because of the friends, not really because of the movie. Whereas, The Evil Dead 2 had me in that laugh-so-hard-you-become-inaudible kind of place. The former was unintentionally bad, but the latter intentional.

Most of the time, if I find myself in vast cognitive dissonance with the director's intentions, I cannot enjoy the film, even to mock. I have to be won over in good faith before I can enjoy a bad movie.

What about that movie with Rowdy Roddy Piper and the aliens? That's fun and not very good.