Yeah, that "Cousin! Cousin. Totally his cousin!" thing did rather spectacularly backfire on them, didn't it?

I agree that a movie can be altered in the editing room -- the difference between FOTR and its EE are the proof -- but an editor (and the people who decide on voiceovers, and the post-production wizards) can only do so much with the footage they get.

You would be REALLY surprised at how much can be changed/decided in post. Most commercial feature films have a high enough shooting ratio that one could cut two or three completely separate movies out of what comes into the editing room. Characters can be changed from good to evil, A and B plots can change places, C plots can be created out of thin air -- generally speaking, the original screenplay (or even the shooting script) bears very little resemblance to what ends up onscreen, structurally or otherwise.

Flash Gordon is one of the best movies of all time. Shameless and adorable.

On the other hand, the people who made Baby Geniuses and the people who made Good Burger should have to serve a week as ita's target dummies.

Worst Movie Standard: Probably The Goonies.

Congratulations. You just made the Baby Jesus cry.

Most commercial feature films have a high enough shooting ratio that one could cut two or three completely separate movies out of what comes into the editing room.

This is, to make a reference to classic cinema, what drove David O. Selznick crazy with regards to Hitchcock. Because Hitchcock storyboarded everything in advance, he just shot pretty much exactly what he was going to use in terms of angles, movements, etc., so that the only way the footage would make sense was if you put it together the way he'd designed it. This left Selznick with no way to recut the movie his own way - he referred to it as "goddamn jigsaw-puzzle shooting" (I believe that was the phrase).

Listening to the commentary on Bull Durham, Kostner talked about a few scenes that were shot, but cut, that would have changed the mood of the movie.

Was the script re-written at all between Ali's reading and shooting?

Well, I did indeed read the script before I saw the movie, and it really was just great. I don't think it was re-written at all, but a lot of punchlines to things in the script got cut out of the movie itself. Which was silly. Since, you know, the payoff is the point, but whatever.

I also think it's not really fair to judge it as a Homerian purist, since I don't think there can really be any such thing as a pure account of the original story. Those myths were ones everyone knew, and Homer's version just got written down. The whole point of telling the stories was to see different people's version of the same story, so in that sense, I give the filmmakers a lot of leeway in interpreting the story how they'd like.

That said, some stuff that wasn't the script's fault, were a few key scenes that Brad Pitt blew. He just didn't add much to them, like the scene where Hector's father comes to visit him to ask for the body. He just sort of recited the lines. (Not to slam Pitt, whom I normally like as an actor. But even he admitted that, in an interview I caught on Charlie Rose, that he tanked that scene. And he did.) It was extremely powerful on the page. They also cut some introductory scenes, that gave some otherwise boring characters depth. And all that stuff really starts to add up. I didn't hate the movie, I thought it was okay, maybe even good, but the script was definitely great.

I don't remember your specific complaints on the structure, Nutty, otherwise I'd go check the script and let you know if it was there, too. However, the script did follow the well-constructed script format to a T. Very classic structure.

Yeah, that "Cousin! Cousin. Totally his cousin!" thing did rather spectacularly backfire on them, didn't it?

Ha. Yes. But I can also understand why they tried to limit the huge gayness of the original, in an attempt to have it make money in middle America. Which is retarded, but I can understand why they would come to that conclusion. However, it just made the homoerotic subtext funnier, and more "out there," because it came off like incest. Way to keep the text in line, guys.

You would be REALLY surprised at how much can be changed/decided in post. Most commercial feature films have a high enough shooting ratio that one could cut two or three completely separate movies out of what comes into the editing room. Characters can be changed from good to evil, A and B plots can change places, C plots can be created out of thin air -- generally speaking, the original screenplay (or even the shooting script) bears very little resemblance to what ends up onscreen, structurally or otherwise.

Yes. This. So true. t /went to my Editing class last night

Congratulations. You just made the Baby Jesus cry.

Fuck you baby jesus! That movie was shitty and I hope you get an infection in your tear gland and need it manually expressed on a twice weekly basis! And if you ever love a movie that crap again I'm going to feed you to a pack of marmosets!

Dude, The Goonies was FUN. Not deep, not Great Art, but fun nonetheless.

You have no magic in your soul. You are magicless. You have undergone a magicectomy.

Hec, Chunk is going to eat you in your sleep.