Mal: Well, you were right about this being a bad idea. Zoe: Thanks for sayin', sir.

'Serenity'


The Minearverse 3: The Network Is a Harsh Mistress  

[NAFDA] "There will be an occasional happy, so that it might be crushed under the boot of the writer." From Zorro to Angel (including Wonderfalls and The Inside), this is where Buffistas come to anoint themselves in the bloodbath.


Frankenbuddha - Jun 24, 2004 7:45:27 pm PDT #770 of 10001
"We are the Goon Squad and we're coming to town...Beep! Beep!" - David Bowie, "Fashion"

So, in this context, just for fun:

P.K. Dick, love him or hate him?


dcp - Jun 24, 2004 7:48:06 pm PDT #771 of 10001
The more I learn, the more I realize how little I know.

Crichton is one of those authors whose stories are better on the the screen than they are on the page.


Gris - Jun 24, 2004 8:23:56 pm PDT #772 of 10001
Hey. New board.

Dick is the god of idea-men, with a writing style that drives me bats. I don't mind if every science fiction ever made is loosely or directly based on his works, though, because his ideas are gold.

I like Jack McDevitt. And would like to offer up James P. Hogan as somebody I think of as "hard" and Greg Egan as somebody who's so hard it hurts. of course, he can't write endings, which is unfortunate, but everything before the ending is one heck of a hard SF journey!


DCJensen - Jun 24, 2004 8:50:03 pm PDT #773 of 10001
All is well that ends in pizza.

I really liked The Andromeda Strain, enough so that I've reread it several times. I've enjoyed a lot of his other books. The "said" thing doesn't bother me at all.

Journalistic style is to use "said" for everything.

I rewrote one of my stories using it a few years ago and I plan to someday go back and undo it.


Mr. Broom - Jun 24, 2004 9:30:32 pm PDT #774 of 10001
"When I look at people that I would like to feel have been a mentor or an inspiring kind of archetype of what I'd love to see my career eventually be mentioned as a footnote for in the same paragraph, it would be, like, Bowie." ~Trent Reznor

English major chime-in:

The golden rule of Show, Don't Tell dictates use of "said" whenever possible. "Asked" and "replied" are pretty much the only accepted alternatives. Dialogue tagging ought to be as simple and unobtrusive as possible; I prefer to see "said" everywhere, because when that's all you see, your brain tunes it out and all you see is the dialogue, which is the way it should be. The idea is, if you can't get across in the dialogue itself that Jim whined his lines, tagging it ..., Jim whined isn't going to do the legwork for you. I've had teachers refer to it as an admission of failure.

End English major chime-in.


Ginger - Jun 25, 2004 3:48:20 am PDT #775 of 10001
"It didn't taste good. It tasted soooo horrible. It tasted like....a vodka martini." - Matilda

I like most Jack McDevitt. However, I love his A Talent for War with the kind of passion that has made me urge it upon strangers on the street and buy every used copy I find to give away. It's so good that it taints his other books, because I read each one breathlessly hoping that it's another Talent for War and it never is.


§ ita § - Jun 25, 2004 3:58:13 am PDT #776 of 10001
Well not canonically, no, but this is transformative fiction.

Dialogue tagging ought to be as simple and unobtrusive as possible;

But dialogue tagging can be simpler. So why bother with "said"? It's medium simple, conveys nothing. If you intend to convey nothing, use nothing.


Calli - Jun 25, 2004 4:16:01 am PDT #777 of 10001
I must obey the inscrutable exhortations of my soul—Calvin and Hobbs

So why bother with "said"? It's medium simple, conveys nothing. If you intend to convey nothing, use nothing.

Sometimes having, "[character] said" helps the reader keep track of who is saying what, especially in a long, intricate piece of dialog. I don't think it's necessary after every speaker says his/her bit, but it can help keep things straight. This is especially true when there are more than two characters talking.

"Valuable point one."
"Ah-hah, but counterpoint."
"Allegedly supportive commentary re: the first person's idea."
"Nicely put, but that allegedly supportive commentary is not really to the point"

A good writer might convey who is saying what in the above by letting us know what the characters think, whether they are the sort of person who makes their own side look stupid, and so on. But I think sprinkingly a few Speaker 1, 2, or 3 saids throughout the above would add a lot to it. And "said" seems more transparent to me than saying, "he intoned," "she sniffed," "he commented," "she drawled," etc. I'm a big fan of dialog heavy writing, and I like "said". My eye just skips right over it, acknowledges the speaker, and goes on to the next bit.


Nutty - Jun 25, 2004 4:30:48 am PDT #778 of 10001
"Mister Spock is on his fanny, sir. Reports heavy damage."

I'm gonna stick with, when the close-quote comes right after a question mark, it's legitimate, nay, called-for, to say "asked" instead of "said". Also, I read journalism a lot. The New York Times has a lot more verve on any given day in its local news section than Michael Crichton has in a novel. In this modern age, the NYT does not necessarily eschew thesauri. I think they even have more synonyms for "said" than Elmore Leonard, although that's not saying very much.

Agreed Crichton is a crap SF writer because he's a crap writer. He's more sort of like a well-researched (or well-bullshitted) terrier with a squeaky chew-toy than he is a novelist. If I want to see someone whale the everliving tar out of an issue, in a way that isn't entertaining or enlightening, I will watch Fox News (for 30 seconds) instead.


Jesse - Jun 25, 2004 4:44:08 am PDT #779 of 10001
Sometimes I trip on how happy we could be.

I think they even have more synonyms for "said" than Elmore Leonard, although that's not saying very much.

Um? Leonard famously calls for only using "said." See here