If I had discovered message boards before 1998, I would have been a Penlind. I don't know how obvious what I am about to say is, but the driving need behind (at least my own) elaborate lie facade was less sympathy and more masochism.

Each time I got caught, I was flooded with hypocritical rage and shame, and as I was/am suffering from depression, those moments were the only times I felt strong emotion. I would still defend myself, often beyond conclusive demonstrations of proof.

Sympathy given while the lies held up was often nice, a little comforting, but what I wanted was to be caught.

alienprayer, that's so fascinating. I consider getting caught lying such a horror that I really don't lie that much. My fear of being caught is tremendous. The idea that it's the draw for some people never even occurred to me.

Really fascinating.

And horrible.

The idea that it's the draw for some people never even occurred to me.

Adrianna Huffington made the comment that subconsciously Gov. McGreevy of NJ wanted to be out of the closet so much that he took really stupid risks (by putting his alleged lover on the state payroll in a high-profile position) in order to get caught.

I kinda get that, Narrator. Because McGreevey being caught is a means to an end that I can understand (though there are more straightforward routes to the goal).

However, I'm translating (pardon the presumptiveness, alienprayer, because this is real to you, and just theoretical to me, and I think it's marvellous that you can talk about it so openly, and hope that means you're much better) this to cutting, and oh! I get it. Not that I have cut, but the clarity of an intense yet unpleasant sensation ... yeah, if you can't get it healthily, suddenly it makes more sense.

When everything feels like the movies
Yeah you bleed just to know you're alive

she would have fit in just fine if she hadn't lied to us. she often brought up many interesting debates for the topiccy folks.

That's what I was thinking in rereading. She was very well spoken/written and seemed fairly knowledgable on a variety of interesting subjects. She would have done just fine on her own.

Me, too. I was reading over some of her classical mythology-based Buffy spec. I'd remembered her talking about that, but no particulars, other than the hero's journey. There was no need for the fakery. I also suddenly have my suspicions, but um, have to remind myself this was 3 years ago, and it doesn't matter. /Bronze things...things of Bronze

Cindy - one or two of the boards i uploaded have Penlind's TA, "Tom", posting. i'm guessing that is who you were talking about.

Yep! I just found a post by white wings to Tom, and went, "Oh, that's him," and came back to tell you. This board from 5/4, seems to be the day we had that silent vigil, and 'held them in the light.' I think the jig was up soon after that, because I remember somehow, Kenickie got completely, mistakenly pegged for doubting them (when I don't even think he'd been around), and I see DL at the top of that board, telling people there'd never been an incident involving Kenickie.

In fact, I'm not sure we made it through that day without the revelation. It seems to me that soon after, we were saying that even if Djoser, et al weren't real, there was enough pain in the world, that if there's any sort of PTB, our good wishes and prayers would be of use.

I found a post from me to ww, saying we should definitely save Cairo's post, no matter what, and I underlined part of it, at the time. I wasn't in on the BiT, but I must have suspected by then that there was an investigation.

Tiggy, I'm all good. It's been an embarassing (yet funny) trip down memory lane. Look what a jerk I still am! Heh.

You, pshaw. I know I was still in extreme-overly-excited newbie phase, then. I'm sort of reading from the hall, because pretty soon, I expect to see myself posting in CAPS because I didn't know how to bold, or spamming the board to vote for James Marsters in some online poll.

Dying, here.

alienprayer, that's so fascinating. I consider getting caught lying such a horror that I really don't lie that much. My fear of being caught is tremendous. The idea that it's the draw for some people never even occurred to me.

I am ita on this. Pretty much to the word. alienprayer, thanks for telling us that, though. That took guts, and the wanting-to-get-caught never dawned on me in Penlind's circumstance, but it suddenly makes everything make even more sense.

The Dr. Feldman whose article Rick V. found on Medline a while back has a website devoted to Munchausen's, including a couple of first-person narratives by recovered sufferers. It's fascinating, and frustrating and sad. At least one of them had done herself so much damage during her years of Munchausen that years later, more than a decade after her last medical lie, her health was seriously compromised but she was having a terrible time finding a doctor willing to treat her.

It sounds like you have a better handle on things now, alienprayer. I'm glad -- it sounds like an awful, self-wounding struggle to go through.

I know I was still in extreme-overly-excited newbie phase, then. I'm sort of reading from the hall, because pretty soon, I expect to see myself posting in CAPS because I didn't know how to bold, or spamming the board to vote for James Marsters in some online poll.

Heh. That's so cute. Teenyboppy!Cindy.

ita, i hope i don't have to punch you in the head really hard so you'll know i loves me some ita. but if a shiner will do it, you know where to find me.

You're welcome to (try and) punch me in the head any time you want, Allyson, but you don't need to to demonstrate anything to me.

When I was at my cloudiest, it was during a time of chronic pain -- it managed to cut through the same fog it caused. But that's why pain won't work for me as a clarifier.