Wash: I mean, I'm the one she swore to love, honor and obey. Mal: Listen... She swore to obey? Wash: Well, no, not...

'War Stories'


Angel 5: Is That It? Am I Done?  

[NAFDA] This is where we talk about the show! Anything that's aired in the US (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though -- if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.


Polter-Cow - May 19, 2004 6:08:08 pm PDT #824 of 3531
What else besides ramen can you scoop? YOU CAN SCOOP THIS WORLD FROM DARKNESS!

not that he'll just be made human, but that he'll be returned to his human life before he was turned.

Maybe Angel's already Shanshu'ed, and he got sent back it time to become Liam again, and that's where we picked up the story. Bum bum BUM!


Micole - May 19, 2004 6:12:15 pm PDT #825 of 3531
I've been working on a song about the difference between analogy and metaphor.

I was doing okay and dealing with my grief and then the WB's thank you came up and ...

uh, yeah, that's when the large font and the boldface happened.

Anyway. Slowly collecting thoughts:

There's a lot of fruitful ambiguity in key moments to chew over, but I come down in favor of Angel having told Lorne to kill Lindsey, because of the bitterness in the last Angel/Lorne exchanges and because of the way Angel told Eve Lindsey wasn't coming back. And I think that this offers a final twist or a final confirmation on the corruption that's seemed to be going on this season, that actually was going on this season -- the corruption or the pragmatism, take your pick.

Angel had good reason to suspect Lindsey would flip sides; the only way to make sense of Lindsey's motivation for this season is to go back to S1 and the beginning of S2, and how it was squeamishness more than conscience that drove Lindsey to good deeds in S1, and personal loss and betrayal more than morality that drove Lindsey to walk out on W&H in S2. When we first met Lindsey, he was a scholarship boy eaten up by wanting the things he'd never had, and staring in the abyss of his own hunger even after he'd taken that sweet-sour bite; so he left it all behind, but ambition and resentment and wanting (Angel, or W&H, or just whatever prize he could get)--these things took over.

I could have used more backup for that interpretation this season, but I'm willing to go with it.

So we have Lindsey, and he's unreliable. And even if he's reliable, he wants W&H. He wants to be the new king after the old one dies. Killing him off delays W&H's recuperation, even if only for a little while. Killing him off stretches out that pyrrhic victory, just a bit more.

And at the same time, it's Angel sacrificing an ally, if not an innocent. Like Angel sacrificed Drogyn. Angel choosing the lesser evil for a greater goal. If his dearest friends are potential sacrifices on the altar of this victory, damn sure he's gonna throw Lindsey on the pyre, too.

Lorne's bitterness may be that he's not the guy who likes violence; that he can't stand seeing the good guys make bad choices; that people he cared for are dead, and he's left with nothing, not even who he thought he was.


billytea - May 19, 2004 6:15:46 pm PDT #826 of 3531
You were a wrong baby who grew up wrong. The wrong kind of wrong. It's better you hear it from a friend.

That was beautiful. What a send-off. For me, it was note-perfect.

t sigh And now I really do have to study. But, so good.


ted r - May 19, 2004 6:16:47 pm PDT #827 of 3531
"You got twelve, and they got twelve. The old ladies are just as good as you are." -Dr. Einstein

Had a great time at Trudy's viewing party (thanks Trudy and guests!).

Alas, plane to catch in the morning so no time to read the comments or sum up my feelings, except I thought it a flawless end to a great season. (And, y'know, series.)

I thought the "thanks from your friends at the WB who stabbed you in the back" was also sort of fitting in a Bush's America kind of way.

When I get back I promise to read all gazillion Angel posts I missed. (Or maybe not ALL...)


askye - May 19, 2004 6:17:36 pm PDT #828 of 3531
Thrive to spite them

What Micole said.


Jessica - May 19, 2004 6:18:02 pm PDT #829 of 3531
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

I'm sifting through old Angel-related LJ entries, and I found this exchange between Cindy and me, from right after the cancellation was announced:

Cindy: I'd like him to reach a decision that he doesn't want to Shanshu--that he'll deliberately remain a vampire.

Me: I think I'd like that too.


Micole - May 19, 2004 6:22:35 pm PDT #830 of 3531
I've been working on a song about the difference between analogy and metaphor.

I wanna tell you how it?s gonna be
You?re gonna give your love to me
Love that lasts more than one day
Well love is love and not fade away
Well love is love and not fade away
Well love is love and not fade away
Well love is love and not fade away
Not fade away
Not fade away

And love is why they fight: love for the world and the people in it, love for what might be better than it is. Cf. Angel's speech to Illyria in "Shells," before Wesley shoots Knox.

Or:

Go out in a burst of glory; don't fade away.

Or:

"Why We Fight" prefigured the season's end thematically, the way we all kinda suspected it did: because death isn't the worst thing that can happen to a hero. Because heroes are willing to die, if their cause is just. Lawson dies, and (unknowing) sells his soul, to complete a mission; Angel kills him, and damns him, for a greater cause. So Wesley dies, and Lindsey's damned, and Lorne damns himself, and Angel goes down fighting a dragon (you know he always wanted to be a knight in shining armor), and they all go down fighting the good fight, in the end.

They're compromised knights in stained armor. Angel arranged for the death of one ally and killed another himself. He violated what he wanted to be, he betrayed the ideals he proclaimed when giving speeches to Cordelia and Illyria, and he did it for the same reason the security head in "Conviction" fought him: for conviction. For his ideals.

And Gunn has the wrist stakes, like Wesley in S4, like Angel in "City of"; he's inherited the fight. And Connor lives; there's something worth fighting for, maybe there's someone out there who will take up the fight.

I don't see this as an unambiguous triumph. But I do see it as a triumph just the same.

I said I'd be happy with a tragic ending as long as it was a heroic tragedy and not a nihilistic one; a heroic tragedy is what I got, and I'm happy with it.

Except for the part where the WB cheated me of an extra year because they're FUCKING BASTARDS.


Jessica - May 19, 2004 6:26:40 pm PDT #831 of 3531
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

For people who've been avoiding entertainment news for fear of spoilers, in an interview earlier this week, Joss said that the theme/arc of S6, had they gotten one, would have been:

"If you buck the system and do your best to make it collapse, what if it does?"


Micole - May 19, 2004 6:26:59 pm PDT #832 of 3531
I've been working on a song about the difference between analogy and metaphor.

Small moments I liked:

- You know, for all that I've detested Spike for years and years, I really did adore that poetry slam thing. It was perfect.

- Hamilton's blood making Angel stronger, which I didn't see coming and which made total sense, in this perfect convergence of metaphor and literal interpretation of the vampire figure

- Connor! Connor coming back to fight

- Harmony betraying them all

- Wesley not being saved by a lie in the end


Beverly - May 19, 2004 6:27:39 pm PDT #833 of 3531
Days shrink and grow cold, sunlight through leaves is my song. Winter is long.

I'm just barging in to whine. The power supply to my computer was taken out at 4:30 this afternoon by a roving band of--no, by a random stroke of lightning. I missed the watch-n-post. I missed it. I saw the ep, but I watched alone, with not even the Buffistas to mark the event with.

I have to finish packing, and then it'll be back to post #601 (marked) to catch up. I missed you all. We'll not see Angel's like again, I'm certain.