On my seventh birthday, I wanted a toy fire truck, and I didn't get it, and you were real nice about it, and then the house next door burnt down, and then real firetrucks came, and for years I thought you set the fire for me. And if you did, you can tell me!

Xander ,'Same Time, Same Place'


Angel 5: Is That It? Am I Done?  

[NAFDA] This is where we talk about the show! Anything that's aired in the US (including promos) is fair game. No spoilers though -- if you post one by accident, an admin will delete it.


Micole - May 19, 2004 6:22:35 pm PDT #830 of 3531
I've been working on a song about the difference between analogy and metaphor.

I wanna tell you how it?s gonna be
You?re gonna give your love to me
Love that lasts more than one day
Well love is love and not fade away
Well love is love and not fade away
Well love is love and not fade away
Well love is love and not fade away
Not fade away
Not fade away

And love is why they fight: love for the world and the people in it, love for what might be better than it is. Cf. Angel's speech to Illyria in "Shells," before Wesley shoots Knox.

Or:

Go out in a burst of glory; don't fade away.

Or:

"Why We Fight" prefigured the season's end thematically, the way we all kinda suspected it did: because death isn't the worst thing that can happen to a hero. Because heroes are willing to die, if their cause is just. Lawson dies, and (unknowing) sells his soul, to complete a mission; Angel kills him, and damns him, for a greater cause. So Wesley dies, and Lindsey's damned, and Lorne damns himself, and Angel goes down fighting a dragon (you know he always wanted to be a knight in shining armor), and they all go down fighting the good fight, in the end.

They're compromised knights in stained armor. Angel arranged for the death of one ally and killed another himself. He violated what he wanted to be, he betrayed the ideals he proclaimed when giving speeches to Cordelia and Illyria, and he did it for the same reason the security head in "Conviction" fought him: for conviction. For his ideals.

And Gunn has the wrist stakes, like Wesley in S4, like Angel in "City of"; he's inherited the fight. And Connor lives; there's something worth fighting for, maybe there's someone out there who will take up the fight.

I don't see this as an unambiguous triumph. But I do see it as a triumph just the same.

I said I'd be happy with a tragic ending as long as it was a heroic tragedy and not a nihilistic one; a heroic tragedy is what I got, and I'm happy with it.

Except for the part where the WB cheated me of an extra year because they're FUCKING BASTARDS.


Jessica - May 19, 2004 6:26:40 pm PDT #831 of 3531
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

For people who've been avoiding entertainment news for fear of spoilers, in an interview earlier this week, Joss said that the theme/arc of S6, had they gotten one, would have been:

"If you buck the system and do your best to make it collapse, what if it does?"


Micole - May 19, 2004 6:26:59 pm PDT #832 of 3531
I've been working on a song about the difference between analogy and metaphor.

Small moments I liked:

- You know, for all that I've detested Spike for years and years, I really did adore that poetry slam thing. It was perfect.

- Hamilton's blood making Angel stronger, which I didn't see coming and which made total sense, in this perfect convergence of metaphor and literal interpretation of the vampire figure

- Connor! Connor coming back to fight

- Harmony betraying them all

- Wesley not being saved by a lie in the end


Beverly - May 19, 2004 6:27:39 pm PDT #833 of 3531
Days shrink and grow cold, sunlight through leaves is my song. Winter is long.

I'm just barging in to whine. The power supply to my computer was taken out at 4:30 this afternoon by a roving band of--no, by a random stroke of lightning. I missed the watch-n-post. I missed it. I saw the ep, but I watched alone, with not even the Buffistas to mark the event with.

I have to finish packing, and then it'll be back to post #601 (marked) to catch up. I missed you all. We'll not see Angel's like again, I'm certain.


Steph L. - May 19, 2004 6:28:56 pm PDT #834 of 3531
I look more rad than Lutheranism

Go out in a burst of glory; don't fade away.

That's what I thought the title referred to -- "It's better to burn out that to fade away."


Micole - May 19, 2004 6:29:32 pm PDT #835 of 3531
I've been working on a song about the difference between analogy and metaphor.

Oh, thank you, Jessica. That's neat.

Also, in my phantom S6, Wesley's contract had a perpetuity clause. Or possibly he comes back as the new liason to the partners. Or Gunn does. I'm still thinking about it.

This coexists perfectly with the ending where they all die fighting the good fight, and also Buffy and Faith come back in a righteous rage and slay more Evil ass, because I contain contradictions and multitudes like that.


DCJensen - May 19, 2004 6:31:58 pm PDT #836 of 3531
All is well that ends in pizza.

I’m a-gonna tell you how it’s gonna be
you’re gonna give your love to me
I wanna love you night and day
you know my love a-not fade away
a-well, you know my love a-not fade away

My love a-bigger than a cadillac
I try to show it and you drive a-me back
your love for me a-got to be real
for you to know just how I feel
a love for real not fade away

I’m a-gonna tell you how it’s gonna be
you’re gonna give your love to me
a love to last a-more than one day
a love that’s love - not fade away
a well, a-love that’s love - not fade away
— Buddy Holly

ETA: Crud, spent so much time on phone with friend, someone beat me to it. Bu look! pretty formatting!


Jessica - May 19, 2004 6:32:00 pm PDT #837 of 3531
And then Ortus came and said "It's Ortin' time" and they all Orted off into the sunset

Small moments I liked:

Yes yes yes to all of those.

Illyria, at the end, "I am feeling grief for him. I cannot seem to control it. I wish to do more violence."

Connor calling Angel a girl.

Illyria punching Vail in the head.

Angel giving Harmony a letter of recommendation.

The Hero of Canton calling Angel "A hero of the people."

Angel wanting to slay the dragon.


Kate P. - May 19, 2004 6:36:19 pm PDT #838 of 3531
That's the pain / That cuts a straight line down through the heart / We call it love

"Ride! Ride for wrath, for ruin, and a red dawn!"

Ahem.

Oh, so much to love about this episode. William the Bloody Awful Poet! And Gunn talking with Anne, and the Angel/Lindsey subtext, and holyfuckingfuck Lorne shooting Lindsey!, and Angel wanting to be the dragonslayer, and Illyria lying to Wes as he died, and then not knowing how to control her grief, and Angel feeding off Hamilton, and of course, that last shot. Beautiful. I feel pretty certain that none of them survived, but of course, of course they would go out fighting.

I hated Eve staying behind in the crumbling building because she doesn't know how to go on now that Lindsey's dead. Then again, it's perfectly in character.

I had half convinced myself that Wesley wouldn't be the one to die. That definitely made me cry.

As soon as the last scene with Lorne and Lindsey began, I knew Lorne was going to kill him. Don't know why; maybe the room looked familiar from the previews. One of the friends I was watching with had the thought that Lorne has probably known for a long time that he would have to kill Lindsey, which would explain why he was so standoffish tonight and for the past few episodes. Probably as far back as when Eve sang for him, since her world is all wrapped up in Lindsey, and possibly even as far back as when Lindsey sang for him. So when he told Angel not to come looking for him afterwards, it was because he knew that that was the last thing he had to do, and once he'd done it, he couldn't go back. That was the first and only person--human, at least--that Lorne ever killed, right?

Was killing Lindsey Lorne's task or was that part freelancing? Did "I've heard you sing" mean "You may think you've changed, and Angel may believe you've changed, but I've seen your future - and I can't let that happen"? Maybe he didn't want to go back not because of what Angel asked him to do but because of what he'd become in his time with the MoG. Not sure I buy my own argument, but I do think it was ambiguous.

Huh. That also makes sense, though I like the first theory better. I'm pretty sure that Angel had told Lorne to shoot Lindsey. It makes a lot of sense. He never trusted Lindsey, at least not since he returned this season.

What no one mentioned was the moment Angel said, "Can you figure out the one word in there you shouldn't have said?"
And my brain quickly went through the sentence, and then I shouted, "OH MY FUCKING GOD!"

Heh. Me too.

And how fucking creepy is it that Fred and Wesley got to die in each other's arms?

Ooh, good point. Theirloveissofuckedupyetpure!

I want closure. This wasn't closure.

Really? This was a lot more closure than I expected.


Lilty Cash - May 19, 2004 6:36:28 pm PDT #839 of 3531
"You see? THAT's what they want. Love, and a bit with a dog."

I don't know how I can sleep, but I've got to try.

Thanks for sticking it out with me. Good night, my friends.