I missed the part about leaving control of W&H to Lindsey (serves me right for thinking I wanted to miss it) but I firmly believe that Angel asked Lorne to kill Lindsey.

I don't think that Angel trusted Lindsey. Lindsey has gone back and forth on being good several times, and in Lindsey & Eve's conversation Lindsey seemed pretty sure that he and Angel would fight after things were finished. (I was assuming Lindsey was talking about a fight to the death).

Also I saw Lindsey's mission w/Lorne as partly a distraction---like he distracted Hamilton and misinformed Harmony. He didn't trust them and needed them out of the way until he could make his move. Granted Angel did need Lindsey's muscle but I think Lindsey would have been suspcious that Angel had something in for him if he'd been paired with anyone else.

Hmm. Double typing keys. What I meant is that I agree with both Joe and Steph - that Angel meant for Lindsey to take over, and that Lorne acted on his own, came to that decision early, and that *that* - the killing of Lindsey that Lorne had decided to do - was what drove the 'I won't meet you guys at the end' speech.

I agree with Lindsey on this - if it had been Angel's idea, *Angel* would have been the one to kill Lindsey.

Good for Lorne.

That was so good. When Joss' name came up on the end credit -- it completely surprised me too.

There was so much in this episode that is what I love about ME shows -- character continuity, humor and angst. It was just amazing. And I'm perfectly willing to believe that they could have lasted the 10 minutes they needed in order to survive and make tv movies.

Gunn was excellent. I loved seeing Anne again -- I was very excited when VK's name came up in the guest credits -- not to mention Christian Kane. I'm really glad we got to see Spike the Bloody Awful Poet.

And Wes broke me and yet I could still think how ironic it was that 3 years ago this is what I wanted. Joss gave me what I wanted and made it hurt.

Also, totally got Hamilton's mistake when he said it. And I did think that Wes was toast when he was the one living as if he had a tomorrow. Poor Wes.

I cannot believe that this is it.

How much did I love that Angel had the foresight to draw up a reference letter for Harmony?

I started to think that maybe Angel really wanted Eve to be left in charge - she'd be incompetent enough to set back the forces of evil quite a bit.

I could buy that the decision to kill Lindsey was partially Lorne's - Angel might have told him that after they took care of the demons he should read him one more time (Lindsey mentioned that Lorne sang, and he might have sung along) and if it looks bad, off him.

"If your next words are kill Spike, we just might have to kiss.."

Brilliant!

"I want you, Lindsey."

"Big brass testes"

See? I really love this show. Connor was used just perfectly. I'm curious to know, those fans who didn't take to Connor (at least pre Origin), did his presence in the finale make the rest of his storyline worth your while? I did love the little (original) bon bon, so I'm not a good judge of this.

I missed Fred. I thought Illyria was used to good effect, but I missed Fred. I liked Illyria's comment to Gunn, about him being easy on the eyes. I loved watching Gunn kick some vamp ass. I am glad that Harmony was a traitor. Her not-badness of this season was doing a number on vampire canon.

DB was just great. I cried every time I looked at him. I was spoiled, so I knew about Wesley's death, and yet he still managed to break my heart in the dying. The hardest part though, was his little discussion with Illyria, in which he said he didn't want anything.

"There is no perfect day for me, Illyria. There is no sunset, or painting, or finely aged scotch that's going to sum up my life and make tonight any...there's nothing I want."

Spike's perfect day was sheer perfection. It was shiny. It was effulgent!

I loved that they met behind the Hyperion. From spoilers, I expected the dragon to piss me off. It didn't piss me off at all.

Personally, I kind of want to slay the dragon.

I t heart Hairloaf.

Lorne questions/comments

1) Do you think the episode implied that Angel asked Lorne to kill Lindsey?

2) What was up Lorne's ass? As near as I can figure, he always saw himself as ambiguous, and Angel as the good guy. And although he went to fight on the good guy side, he (Lorne) did so, because it was the most sensible plan for him. However, he admired Angel, and so when he realized Angel has feet of clay like the rest of us, he couldn't take the disillusionment, even though Angel's no worse than he (Lorne) is. Does that seem like a fair assessment? I'm not married to it. I'm just trying to make sense of it.

I want closure. This wasn't closure.

I had time to chew on this, because I was spoiled. I took a few things away from this very open ended ending.

The first is what SailAweigh said, namely:

That was just too, too sad. But it's the only way I can imagine the series ending. "If nothing you do matters, than all that matters is what you do." Sob.

The second message I took away, is sort of based on what Angel said to Connor (about them not being able to destroy him, as long as Connor was okay), and what Angel said to Spike (about them not getting out of it alive). They weren't there to win. They were there to fight. And they are fulfilling their purpose.

The third is a meta message. The story wasn't over. The tellers were shushed before their time. They weren't allowed to tell the whole story, so we have to stop hearing it here. When I was merely spoiled, I was a little pissed off by that, but in seeing it, I'm actually glad. Good on Joss & co. The frigging story wasn't over.

Part of me wondered if the idea of Connor being Angel's shanshu was going to come up, that he actually couldn't be killed until Angel signed away the rights to shanshu - that he no longer owned the human life that was Connor's.

Madrigal, the same thing occured to me, when Angel was signing away the shanshu. He had a very satisfied look on his face. My first thought was that he signed "Angel" and "Liam" (sorry Kristen) is actually his real name, in terms of the humanity he was signing away. Then I thought about Connor, and yeah...what you said.

How fitting for Illyria to ask Wes if he wanted her to lie to him. I flashed back to the Buffy episode and Giles telling Buffy that you can always tell the good guys by the white hats, the bad guys wear black and nobody ever dies. The whole package was just too much. Angel took that and subverted it even more than Buffy ever did. I guess they're all blue.

Yes! Yes. This.

FUCK YOU, WB.

That is all.

Marries Micole's spicy bitter braNeS!

Um. They're all dead. Or I read them as all dead, but going down fighting.

Yes. Yes they are. Unless they have your unlesses.

I really think Lorne was acting on his own. And I think *that's* why he said he wouldn't be coming back, don't try to find him.

That was my take, but when Angel told Eve that Lindsey wouldn't be coming for her, he seemed to say it with real weight.

I can't make any actual commentary tonight. It's too much. Sleep well, Buffistas.

How much did I love that Angel had the foresight to draw up a reference letter for Harmony?

How much did I wonder why the hell he didn't just fucking put a stake in her, she's done?

I sort of saw Angel's treatment of Harmony as acknowledging that he hadn't really helped her. He'd given her a job, but he hadn't made her into a member of the MoG, and he hadn't had the time or means to really reform her. As for her "betraying" Angel - there's the possibility Harmony was lying about the details, or that she had to admit some information to get Hamilton to pay any attention to her at all. She's not very bright, and I could easily see her actions as more out of stupidity than malice. But in the end, she hadn't hurt him, even though she could have tried, and she did the best she was capable of as a soul-less vampire, so he bore her no ill-will. Still - I'd like to have seen her as a new head of W&H.

I thought Angel might have signed the paper "Angle" if he really cared about the Shanshu. It'd be a nice nod to the "Buffi&Angle4Evah!" crowd.

fans who didn't take to Connor (at least pre Origin), did his presence in the finale make the rest of his storyline worth your while?

Honestly, Cindy, I think it does. I never liked Connor, although I think it was more him that I didn't like, other than the storyline, but as a whole, he means much more to me after seeing the end result- what Angel did the things he did for.