Wow, I'd forgotten, but S5 had some excellent episodes. Actually, other than The Girl in Question, I can't even think of an episode I disliked off the top of my head. I thought the Harmony episode and the WWII flashback episodes were subpar, but even those had some good bits, like the chopstick fight and the whole Lawson/Connor parallel.

I tend to share the opinion that the quality tended to seesaw, with one show waxing as the other waned. But I think Buffy in its pure state in the early seasons was better than either of the divided efforts

I would agree with this, especially if you compare BuffyS7 to AngelS4.

Overall, I think Angel is probably the better-executed show, but Buffy is more ... I almost want to say adorable. Lovable, maybe? I watch Angel with my head, Buffy with my heart.

Also, I think Angel was much more consistent. The best Buffy episodes are better than the best Angel episodes, but even bad episodes of Angel are better than much of S7Buffy. (I got it when it was on sale after T'giving. Tried to watch. Couldn't.)

I also agree that "Origin" is an excellent episode. I don't consider it a personal favorite because, while I grew to like Connor a LOT in S4, I thought "Home" was the perfect ending to his story, and bringing him back for an encore just felt like the kind of ploy you'd see on other, inferior TV shows.

For me "You're Welcome" "Smile Time" and "Not Fade Away" were the five star ones. "Numero Cinco" "Shells" "Origin" and "Time Bomb" were the other real hits. (And even averaging in Spike's all-too-pervasive presence only "Hellbound" and "Let's Play Dog-in-the-Manger with Buffy in Absentia" really rankled.)

I thought "Home" was the perfect ending to his story, and bringing him back for an encore just felt like the kind of ploy you'd see on other, inferior TV shows.

I'd agree except his character was so interesting when he came back. The dynamic with Angel was so loaded and complex and fascinating.

I'd agree except his character was so interesting when he came back. The dynamic with Angel was so loaded and complex and fascinating.

I feel that they did it about as well as it could possibly be done on every level, and I still hated it. There are very few ways they could have brought Connor back that I would not see as Wrong.

But I seem to be freakish in many of my reactions to Angel S5. (e.g., I minded "The Girl in Question" much less than the actual endgame with the black circle conspiracy. It felt like they knew the Buffyverse needed to end with an apocalypse, couldn't be arsed to plant the seeds early enough in the season that would naturally lead to one, and instead just threw something together in the last 90 minutes.) So this may all just be me.

I thought "Home" was the perfect ending to his story, and bringing him back for an encore just felt like the kind of ploy you'd see on other, inferior TV shows.

I would agree, except that it was much less about Connor than about Angel. And it was just so. fucking. perfect.

Also, I liked "The Girl in Question." I wouldn't call it 5-star, not by about 2 stars, but I liked it. I would have put it further toward the middle of the season, though.

Five-star from S5? "Origin," definitely. I liked "Not Fade Away," but it's really more of a 4-star episode.

No, LJ, it isn't just you. Though the problem may have been, TPTB may have known how they wanted the series to end (and let's face it, it's a powerful image) and had to rush things when cancellation was announced midseason.

I watch Angel with my head, Buffy with my heart.

I think this sums up the difference for me. There's no doubt that I love BtVS more than AtS and that includes all 7 seasons of Buffy. There's some awesome AtS (discounting the Saint Cordy/Baby Connor/Teen Connor hooking up with Cordy storyline, which I don't think I can ever forgive), but AtS, while I watched every week, never had my heart the way Buffy did.

Also, I liked "The Girl in Question." I wouldn't call it 5-star, not by about 2 stars, but I liked it. I would have put it further toward the middle of the season, though.

Teppy is me on this episode. The Wes/Illyria/Burkle part of the ep was perfect and heartbreaking, and the Italian stuff made me laugh a lot. It wouldn't have been nearly as problematical if they'd moved that portion of the episode to earlier in the season somewhere. Granted, I have my own rationalization for the characterization issues other people had, so YMMV.

In the "Girl in Question was fun!" corner.