It really was a triumph of writing for Fury, and a very worthy sendoff for both the actor and character. Yeah, I think I felt gratitude too.

Absolutely. I wouldn't have thought that they could do anything at that point to make me give a damn about Cordelia. Fury proved me wrong. But it was still too little, too late.

Wes, though - in a way, though a lot of people have said that because there wasn 't anything more it lessened the impact. I didn't react that way. Honestly, when I think about it, it's more like an unhealed wound. It hurts more because there wasn't anything after, not less.

Yeah, I've just looked over the No Limits, it was pretty clear to me that there were hints of Angel-Wes Slash, which I don't normally go for but if it's how we can get Wes back then whatever. That and the Existential Scoobies season are a bit better in my opinion than "Legends Never Die" (which started strong but went downhill a bit-people who obviously didn't know how to write English characters trying to write Spike dialogue-and is now pretty much dead) and the Angel Virtual Series, which is kind of "eh."

The rumours that I've heard about what Season Six would have been (since it's probably never going to happen, I don't know that they can really be called spoilers) have varied: I haven't heard the one where Angel joins the Circle and then spends the next year preparing to bring them down it might have worked, but extending it over the season might have been a bit much. Presumably Season Six would have then ended the way Season Five did, and would have been the last season?

The Season Six stories that I have heard include it being post-apocalyptic or there being a "power vacuum" in terms of evil in LA. Also, I've heard that Fred and Illyria might have been "separated" by Willow, or Illyria would start to show more of Fred's personality, and that Oz was going to show up to teach Nina more about being a werewolf (he's shown up in two virtual seasons thus far). You don't always know how serious Whedon and co. are being w/ what they say, but...that's all that I've heard.

I'd definitely rather discuss what might have been on Angel than watch 90% of the other stuff that's actually on TV though!

I've read an Acker interview where she said the original plan was for them to draw the remnants of Fred out of Illyria in Season 6 and have her play two parts. Dunno if that's how it would have actually played out had the show continued though—my impression is that fan response to Illyria was much warmer than to Fred.

I was pretty sure they had a plan to remove Fred. It had to do with the crystal creatures they were fighting, and Fred's sudden trip to the lab, and the fact that her eye crystalized before Illyria took over.

otherwise, the season would have ended with Angel joining the Circle of the Black Thorn, and the last season would have been about building that scam up, then ending at about the same place.

But, see, that would have made sense.

I think the way they did it just felt very rushed --- like the writers thought, gee, we have to wrap the show up, and we haven't established this Sooper Sekrit Villain Cabal yet, let's just toss 'em in there anyhow.

the fact that her eye crystalized before Illyria took over.

That was my wank from the beginning. I really wanted to see that happen. Ah, well.

I thought I remembered hearing that not much in S5 changed after news of the cancellation, and that this was always the way it was going to end. Of course, I read that at the same time I read the spoilers for the finale, and all I could say was "The FUCK??"

ETA: And what are the thoughts on the eye crystallization? What did that do?

I got the feeling the only reason Illyria could "tap" into Fred was because there were pieces of her left that shouldn't be there. And those pieces were trapped when the yucky bugs they were battling at the beginning of the show infected Fred. They didn't infect her at the beginning of the show, she infected herself once she knew she was dying. Maybe she figured by being crystallized it would preserve her DNA or something and she could be cloned. Who knows, the wank could take a number of different paths from there. And I would have believed it.

I'm not sure I buy anything Fred could do in her lab being effective against a Great Old One's predestined efforts at resurrection. Then again, I'm not sure I buy Wesley's department being able to cobble together something that could safely dispel the power of said Great Old One, and I've had almost a year to get used to the idea since actually seeing it air.

I think the way they did it just felt very rushed --- like the writers thought, gee, we have to wrap the show up, and we haven't established this Sooper Sekrit Villain Cabal yet, let's just toss 'em in there anyhow.

The one saving grace for me was that they were all players that Angel & Co. had been introduced to earlier in the season via their work at Wolfram & Hart.

I'm not sure I buy anything Fred could do in her lab being effective against a Great Old One's predestined efforts at resurrection.

My thought at the time was that she injected herself with the crystal creature venom.